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Lap times from the rally stud test

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  • Lap times from the rally stud test

    Many SS guys know I ran a set of bruno wessal rally stud equipped tires in saturdays 2nd race as a test.Quite a few asked my impression afterwards and I said if I had to guess they offered slightly less grip mid corner out but braked well comparing to last years tire.
    Since I only had a lap or so before losing studs on this new tire I can't offer any really comparo,I did go back though the 1st 2 weekends last year with the geo and note lap times as they were both similiar temps/ice conditions.
    Laps times last year averaged right around 50 seconds with one cracker at 47 seconds,saturdays race was in the 51 second range with 2 at 49 seconds.I'm sure everyone is thinking the rally studs are crazy fast comparing my laps to those in the same race but most people were missing studs.The fastest awd cars were retaining studs and I lapped them once only.(as I should considering my car agaisn't stock subarus)
    To add further information for a fair'ish comparison my car received a different engine that may be as much as 15hp up on last years(it seems to pull harder on the straight thats for sure),some major refinements to the front suspension and the obvious downforce additions.My gut feeling is that if fresh ipikes/aluminum studs were put on for a test with the car this year they would be a fair bit quicker than these rally studs.
    I think if a tire could be found that offered to hold a few more studs they could make viable replacement for menards with the goal being reduced track wear while offering a step up from the SS grip levels.Maybe with this the "menard" guys could enjoy a full season of fun in the future,for sure I'd make the switch from SS to a tire combo that performed in between the 2.

    For giggles I just calculated out my speeds with the smaller tires and higher rev limit,130k on the straight and 106 at the entry to the kink.
    Last edited by max attack; 01-27-2013, 10:11 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

    Sorry to hearabout stud problems

    Fellow Ice racers

    The tire stud combination, using the Wessel stud, was supported out of Montreal, and is basically the tire stud combination used on the Echo cup cars in Sherbrook.

    Don’t ask me how I know.

    If you want to go to a single supplier, Dan Bolitan can probably help.

    the studs when properly installed with black max ran on bare pavement, spun the tires in gravel and did not lose any studs in the tests.Peter Austin.

    P.S.
    One set of tires that last seasons and costs a little more is cheaper and fairer, than replacing tires during the season.

    When a stud tire solution was offered in another thread years ago, it was deleted by the then president, an ice racer, to support an existing CASC approved supplier.

    I brought down a set of these studs to minden several years ago and lent them to a couple of competitors for evaluation, one yellow rabbit if I remember correctly.

    I am currently building a set of bandag recaped tires with 200 rally studs per tire to be used on a GXP Solstice for an ice race experience run by CHAG Autoport and will let you know how it works out,

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

      Peter! this is all down to track wear! ... The studs that you brought me at the open house last year are too aggressive for the SS classes ... Nuff said!

      We are the only land based track in North America running a full series ... So if we hit dirt, I don't care what stud you are trying to sell or promote, it will be toast!
      Ice Racing will always be a Black art! So ... In order to finish first, ... first you must Finish!

      CASC-OR Ice Race Director
      Toronto Autosport Club Ice Race Organizer
      Minden Kin Club Member
      District 8 Secretary Kin Canada
      Car Number 1
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

        Andy,

        The studs I gave you are the big brother (9x15??) of the stud that were supplied to Winnipeg(8x13??) for their series, both come from Bruno Wessal.

        I was proposing them as a solution for your problem with the menards.

        The pocket can be drilled deeper like we did for the Sherbrook studding stopping the studs from coming out, and reducing wear on the track.

        Peter

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

          Originally posted by uptownguy View Post
          Andy,

          The studs I gave you are the big brother (9x15??) of the stud that were supplied to Winnipeg(8x13??) for their series, both come from Bruno Wessal.

          I was proposing them as a solution for your problem with the menards.

          The pocket can be drilled deeper like we did for the Sherbrook studding stopping the studs from coming out, and reducing wear on the track.

          Peter
          So if we hit dirt, they are toast ...???
          Ice Racing will always be a Black art! So ... In order to finish first, ... first you must Finish!

          CASC-OR Ice Race Director
          Toronto Autosport Club Ice Race Organizer
          Minden Kin Club Member
          District 8 Secretary Kin Canada
          Car Number 1
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

            Originally posted by Champ98 View Post
            So if we hit dirt, they are toast ...???
            No they are rally studs and have a carbide core in a steel case and are designed to run on pavement, frozen gravel and ice over extended distance.

            As rally studs, extended driving on asphalt causes the steel casing to wear a little, and when installed in a bandag recap there is plenty of rubber to replace studs.

            At Sherbrook by the end of the weekend the line on the track was down to pavement and the studs did not lose a lot of their grip.

            Chris was on the same studs in the main race and the wheel wells were black from the asphalt and the tires were still working.

            I believe the Menard stud is a hardened steel stud, and I know of no one currently making a steel stud with a brazed carbide tip like we raced on in the seventies.

            One option would be to use a screw-in stud which could be removed and replaced in case of wear.

            I have installed over 100k competition studs over the last 45 years along with countless street studs.

            I have also designied, manufactured and installed custom studs to take advantage of specific rules for events and series.

            If you have any questions feel free to contact me,

            Peter

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

              Are there any pics of these studs in the tires you guys are speaking of?
              Michael Kamm

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Lap times from the rally stud test



                This is the only pic I have,not the greatest but you get an idea.Given the aggressive look I was surprised they felt less grippy than the aluminum bodied street stud used last year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

                  I'd be interested to know the cost of a rally studded recap compared to the menard.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

                    mmm, look at that meaty tread block with minimal siping near the stud.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

                      Originally posted by Mike Kamm View Post
                      Are there any pics of these studs in the tires you guys are speaking of?
                      Mike! your alive! ...Haven't heard from you in a coons age ...
                      Ice Racing will always be a Black art! So ... In order to finish first, ... first you must Finish!

                      CASC-OR Ice Race Director
                      Toronto Autosport Club Ice Race Organizer
                      Minden Kin Club Member
                      District 8 Secretary Kin Canada
                      Car Number 1
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

                        Originally posted by briansexsmith View Post
                        mmm, look at that meaty tread block with minimal siping near the stud.
                        What do you mean? ..You saw them last weekend ...

                        And that Sailun is a knock -off of the 409 we used last year ...
                        Ice Racing will always be a Black art! So ... In order to finish first, ... first you must Finish!

                        CASC-OR Ice Race Director
                        Toronto Autosport Club Ice Race Organizer
                        Minden Kin Club Member
                        District 8 Secretary Kin Canada
                        Car Number 1
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

                          Originally posted by Champ98 View Post
                          Mike! your alive! ...Haven't heard from you in a coons age ...
                          Ha ha, yes I have resurfaced after taking a couple of years off of ice racing. I am always interested in tires and studs and all that good stuff though.
                          Michael Kamm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Lap times from the rally stud test

                            Originally posted by Mike Kamm View Post
                            Ha ha, yes I have resurfaced after taking a couple of years off of ice racing. I am always interested in tires and studs and all that good stuff though.
                            Mike you should make the trip north to see how we do it on "land"

                            You may get a better season out of it.
                            Ice Racing will always be a Black art! So ... In order to finish first, ... first you must Finish!

                            CASC-OR Ice Race Director
                            Toronto Autosport Club Ice Race Organizer
                            Minden Kin Club Member
                            District 8 Secretary Kin Canada
                            Car Number 1
                            sigpic

                            Comment

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