Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

    Paying upfront for the season is overall not a bad idea, but if you pay up front and we only race 5 weekends, or your car explodes in a blaze of glory, getting a refund could be interesting.. Not to mention that is a lot of cash to put out when you are racing on a budget. And not getting points as a result is not exactly fair, perhaps making the upfront payment an option or those who can do it. This is not the racers problem as I see it.. This is a kinsmen/club issue, as the racers we do not control how our money is spent once we hand it over at registration.. The good news is I bought an ice racer this week and I know of three more people coming back to ice racing in 2014.
    Josh Taylor
    Ice Racing
    Chevette hell yeah

    BallzOut Racing

    Nugold, The official oil of Engine Failure

    Two Hard Boiled All Up In His Grill

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

      I think the issue isn't so much the timing of when the money comes in, it is how it is distributed among the weekends. As has been pointed out, it's a bit of a nightmare for eveyone to have to pay up front and then get a refund for the days you don't race. I think it is far better for both the clubs and the racers to pay as you go. However, that leaves variability among weekends in terms of the number of entries. If your club is organizing the races on a weekend where there are a good number of entries, then you have a better chance of breaking even or making money. If your club happens to be the organizer on a weekend where the entries are down, it might lose money, as apparently happened to a couple of clubs this year. Some clubs can perhaps absorb the loss, while others might not be able to do that. Certainly not year after year.

      We do need more racers, as that solves everyone's problem. Failing that, I do think the clubs may need to consider some form of risk sharing. Pooling the fees and the direct costs such as insurance and other non-discretionary costs would probably work, as it would leave a residual amount to be paid to the clubs which would either go into general revenues or be used to pay other costs such as per-diems. The tricky part would then be to determine how the residual funds would be distributed to the clubs. IE: even split vs proportionate to participating members or some other methodolodgy. I'm sure the clubs can work something out. What I don't support is cutting back on the amount paid to the Kinsmen to build and maintain the track.
      Gary

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

        Gary, i agree a pay as you go is the best plan for the entry fees. If one to pay for the season how would it be done for each club? If there was a way to pay up front for the season how would each club be paid?

        Not that I am an organizer but do have some knowledge about the costs to run a race.

        Len I agree some of the costs are high.

        Gary Poth

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

          paying upfront = bad idea due to many obvious reasons.

          if Salun tire holds up the entire season, many guys will return to racing or move to SS classes from RTI.
          #53 Toyota Tercel 4WD
          #53 Toyota MR2

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

            Correct me if I'm wrong but, are the kinsmen not completely transparent with their financing? It would be very easy to see if they need or do not need the fees. The portion of the entry that goes to the kinsmen is quite large but, building and maintaining the track is no small task. Not to mention the expensive equipment such as the pump etc. Add insurance which is another large portion and you leave very little for everything else it takes to run a weekend.

            Tlmc lost money this year. Mostly due to the decrease in entries. I don't believe the clubs or the kinsmen are getting anywhere near rich off of ice racing.

            I think if we focus more on increasing our entries we can operate these races without losing money. If anything I think the numbers we had this year were less than we need to operate the races at no loss.
            Fiero #159 Ice racing

            Thats what she said.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

              Ok, so a potential solution that we discussed in the paddock was different than the ones I have read.

              Since the clubs are all doing the same job on different weekends and, as a result, fall victim or benefit, from circumstances beyond the quality of the job they do running the race weekend. So, the idea would be to pay the participating clubs at the end of the season. The amount would be the average of all 6 weekends run by the clubs. In this way, no one club is forced to absorb the loss for circumstances beyond their control.

              As for the maintenance fee, I was never a fan. I understand the need to have money for maintenance and equipment replacement but I am of the opinion that this should be part of the business and, as such, part of the rental fee. It is also my opinion that when a rental fee increase was proposed to them, clubs would have resisted this because they were already seeing decreased revenues and a lottery on whether they made money or not shaping up.

              To me, based on 75 entries per weekend(likely more based on a a 2 year average), $5 dollars per weekend yields $2250 per season for maintenance above and beyond rental revenue. That doesn't seem like a ton of maintenance. I do remember a pump that will need to be replaced soon at a steep price of about $9000 and the concern that a broken pump could cripple track build. I think the goal was to build a reserve with the maintenance fee. My original math was wrong(based on someone else's assertion on maintenance amount as I remember it) The maintenance fee should still be a short term measure to catch up reserves to allow for contingencies in my opinion.

              In the end, if the Kinsmen don't build the track, I am sure there is no one ready to step up and do it to keep racing going. So, we need to find a way that keeps them viable. And, if the clubs don't rent the track, then there won't be anyone to run the races. So, we need to find a way to keep the clubs happy. The ice racing ecosystem of track builders, organizing clubs, racers and spectators need a solution.

              Given the number of solutions oriented people involved in Ice racing, I am sure a solution will be arrived at that will satisfy all stakeholders. Let's hope it comes sooner than later because it is only about 40 weeks until the 2014 season starts. That is 280 sleeps.
              Last edited by Todd Doyle; 04-04-2013, 04:41 PM. Reason: Correction on the numbers
              Rubbber to ice - Coroller All-Trac
              Kinsmen Club of Oshawa - the only all canadian service club

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

                I believe the maintenance fee is $5.00, NOT $20.00.
                Maybe that was a special price just for you?
                LOL

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

                  Originally posted by Pappa168 View Post
                  I believe the maintenance fee is $5.00, NOT $20.00.
                  Maybe that was a special price just for you?
                  LOL
                  You got 'er Pontiac!!! I editted my math and my post to reflect the correction. I think I mixed up Len's $20 per entry with his commentary that the Maintenance fee has become intolerable. Not sure how $5 per weekend or $30 per season has become intolerable but it appears it may have for some.
                  Rubbber to ice - Coroller All-Trac
                  Kinsmen Club of Oshawa - the only all canadian service club

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

                    Originally posted by Todd Doyle View Post
                    Since the clubs are all doing the same job on different weekends and, as a result, fall victim or benefit, from circumstances beyond the quality of the job they do running the race weekend. So, the idea would be to pay the participating clubs at the end of the season. The amount would be the average of all 6 weekends run by the clubs. In this way, no one club is forced to absorb the loss for circumstances beyond their control.


                    The Time-Attack series functions this way. There are 5 clubs involved in organizing and the excess revenue (if any) is shared based on the efforts involved. I.e. if OMSC organizes 3 days and HADA organizes 4 days, HADA gets more of the year end profits than OMSC. OTOH no individual club takes a bath for a bad weather weekend etc. Certainly the Time-Attack budgets are sig. higher than Ice Racing budgets based on track rental costs alone and the higher profit weekends depend more on track rental costs and weather than anything else.

                    BTW the reality is that there are a limited number of clerks, timers, scrutineers etc and we run a very communist system i.e we all contribute as needed rather than having each club get their own clerk, timers, scrutineers etc.
                    Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

                      Dave,

                      Hmmm... Those are options the ice race clubs can look at. Thanks!

                      Len

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

                        I still think we have lots of entries, they just don't show up often enough. Look at the results for this year:

                        172 entries
                        33 had throw away points

                        How do we get more drivers to compete for the series? Tough to build a series on 33 competitors.

                        Dave

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: 2013 Spring Drivers Meeting ...

                          Start Advertising.
                          Even if it is all of us uploading our best races and linking to the CASC site.

                          This past year started out poor for weather, and the SS tire uncertainty kept me and I know of 2 others away till it is sorted out.
                          #21 1985 Pontiac Acadian
                          Class 1 & SS1 (RWD)
                          TAC & TLMC
                          [/URL]

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X