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  • silverwolfracin
    replied
    LSD versus Welded

    For the comment of how hard it was to swap the tranny for us amateurs:
    Once it is dropped, you can get a tranny mechanic to split it open and either swap in the LSD or weld it. If you give it to the mechanic now, they'll do it on the side during the summer. Try Barry at The Transmission Place in Oshawa.905-576-1021.
    Some are much easier though, our old Tercel with the transverse mount engine could be re and re'd in 3 hours in your garage. Drop it on your chest on your creeper and get someone to pull your ankles!
    There was an access plate that you could weld in. I got a mobile welder to come in and MIG weld everything on the car for $65 per hour.

    Leave a comment:


  • max attack
    replied
    Yeah I was already wondering if Tony has picked a co-driver for the targa-you know one with 4wd experience that could get behind the wheel in case he got sick or hurt somehow........(he he!)
    Yep 4wd is bar none the most entertaining/challenging ice race class for sure,fwd did seem a little boring at times this year after not running in fwd since 2000.

    Leave a comment:


  • Crusher45
    replied
    Re: Wadda we have here boys??

    Originally posted by rubber2ice
    Well, well, it looks like we have a bona-fide movie star in our group!

    I was flicking through the channels last night and there, before my eyes, on SPEED CHANNEL is none other than Tony McGrath on the big screen.

    Looks like a real movie star and he got himself a real purty car too!

    Not only looks good, particularly with the "girl silouhette" on the roof, but it seems even faster in the new trim than the old.....and look, it even has headlights!!

    I think we ought to help Tony out in his quest for Targa immortality by buying a bunch of those hero cards he has for sale...I wonder if he has a bulk discount pricing schedule??

    Go get em T MacG.....TD
    Terry that was a repeat. Seems Tony has gone into reruns already. Oh well quick hasbeen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Do It Sidewayz
    replied
    Thats me smiling from atop the snow bank!
    HAHA. i remember that...i come around one lap. see Tony up on the bank with a stupid look on his face.....next lap around....lets see if we can scare him, lets get as close as possible to his bumper . I swear i got within about 2 inches one lap.

    And yep...4wd turbo is the most fun when you get it right, but when it's all wrong it sucks.


    Now....to get to work on MY rally car!!! MUAHAHA...tallpines here i come!

    Leave a comment:


  • rubber2ice
    replied
    Wadda we have here boys??

    Well, well, it looks like we have a bona-fide movie star in our group!

    I was flicking through the channels last night and there, before my eyes, on SPEED CHANNEL is none other than Tony McGrath on the big screen.

    Looks like a real movie star and he got himself a real purty car too!

    Not only looks good, particularly with the "girl silouhette" on the roof, but it seems even faster in the new trim than the old.....and look, it even has headlights!!

    I think we ought to help Tony out in his quest for Targa immortality by buying a bunch of those hero cards he has for sale...I wonder if he has a bulk discount pricing schedule??

    Go get em T MacG.....TD

    Leave a comment:


  • tony mcgrath
    replied
    Originally posted by max attack
    Of course 4wd isn't quite so easy huh Tony?.
    Yeah, 4wd gives the driver twice as many opportunities to mess up, as my cover shot on the PMSC newsletter will attest to.

    Thats me smiling from atop the snow bank!

    My only consolation is that my co driver - Graham Tullet had as many spins with the GTX rubber car as i did. the rally suspension that was in the car when i bought it was way to stiff for ice...

    Now that i've had the a season to sort the car though, it will be a lot easier to drive next year.

    As a couple of guys have mentioned already - Turbo 4wd is the most difficult to drive fast on ice- but when you get it right i believe it also is the most fun too.

    Especially in studded!!

    Tony

    Leave a comment:


  • max attack
    replied
    Ha ha,I did forget about Carol-perhaps I thought they meant me because I was usually right behind(actually right in front sometimes!)of her but ahead of those little fastiva's most of the time.It would be nice next year if I didn't draw the very last start position in EVERY qualifer!,then maybe she could try to catch and pass me instead of the other way around.She has enough jacket's,I will be trying to help myself or even better someone like Dan to earn one-god knows he deserves it one far more than the ice queen(more like ice bitch-didn't hear that from me)
    Tony's right,its easier to get a fwd to turn in with chassis/tire selection with a welded diff than to try and tune to get more grip with one wheel.Of course 4wd isn't quite so easy huh Tony?.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary
    replied
    Uhh, Tom, I think the pesky little red thing Andy is referring to is an ancient Civic. You know, the one we see mostly at the front?

    Andy, I presume the new cars in question will be "Fastiva's" with Escort GT power?

    On our car selection front, seems we've got lots of thinking to do. There's a good article on LSD's in this month's GRM. Guess I'll have to re-read it. On balance, maybe the welder is the right choice for the diff. If only it weren't such an lengthy job for us amateur mechanics... However, no pain, no gain.... we'll just have to step up. We've got 8 months to find a car and get it done. Stay tuned, there will be questions......

    Leave a comment:


  • max attack
    replied
    Welding the diff is a pain in the ass,the welding part is easy-its the disassembly of the tranny to get the diff out and then the reassembly after welding that is labour intensive.
    I have tons of room in my crx,with a race seat there's lots of head room and with custom mounts the seat can be back as far as the floor pan allows.Should build a spacer for the steering wheel though,I find even with my normal height the wheel is always to far away when my seat is adjusted for my feet in a honda.

    Leave a comment:


  • 98RACE
    replied
    ^^^^^ Thats the fun thing about not caring.

    A CRX si would be nice but I dont thing Gary or Andrew will be able to fit in without moving the seats in to the trunk.


    Also how much work goes in to welding a front diff?

    Leave a comment:


  • max attack
    replied
    Is it my little red thing with the open diff,carbed 1500cc(70ish hp),rear shocks missing(cancer ate the mounts and they fell off!)no tuning at all,and 2 or 3 year old blizzacks that sat on the car in the sun for the summer(don't ask-not my really my car)and didn't freshen on the tractionizer that you and Dan are building new cars to catch?
    Sorry I have no answer to why it does as well as it does,would likely be a little better with a welded diff but its not worth the effort to me.I kinda like adding fuel and just picking up what falls off,which is quite a bit actually!.

    Leave a comment:


  • Champ98
    replied
    Tony is right ...

    The Phantom Grip I put in My class 2 car only came into it's own on high traction days ( at the end of the season) and would act more like a welded diff more often than not. Even though I ordered the race springs with the PG I kept the stock springs in it when I made the install,( not an easy task), and still I had to learn the car all over again. My brother Dan was second overall in class last season with a 1.3 and an open diff, decisions, decisions ...

    I,m retiring my class 2 car and restoring it back to it's road going days as a rally car, hopefully with a B6T in it ...

    Dan and I are then building new class 2 cars for next year, both with B6 swaps, to try and catch that pesky lil' red thing with the open diff!

    Leave a comment:


  • tony mcgrath
    replied
    Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz
    I believe the SOLE reason why the Magik/McGrath "lifesaver" rabbit is so quick is the LSD.

    I disagree- the lsd is good but it gives up traction to a welded diff in a straight line, and off the start.

    Having actually run all three types of diffs in the car I can share some FACTUAL experiences . In 2002 we started with an open diff in the rabbit. Turned in great, but I didnt like it, too much wheel spin, so I welded it up and the cars race results immediately improved. Then I fiddled with the handling of the car to get it to turn-in better with the welded diff, and it became a consistent class winner.

    We had a welded diff in the Rabbit for the first two weekends in 2003 while we were waiting for the lsd to get removed from an old wrecked racecar .

    My winning percentage was better with the welded diff than with the lsd.

    I went 8 wins out of 8 races with the welded diff, then 11 wins out of 14 races with the lsd.

    The reason you need an open diff or an lsd over a welded diff is to get the car to turn-in better.
    We had the rabbit turning-in really well with a welded diff, so switching to an LSD only gave up straight line traction for us.

    I know Andy hughes went to a Phantom grip LSD in his class 2 Festiva this season. Looking at the race results- it didnt seem to help him.

    There is always a trade off with these things. You get some turn-in, you lose some straight line traction.

    There is a mini stock guy who wants to buy my LSD for his circle track racing this summer. If I can get him to do all the labour on both cars it's sold...

    My 2 cents- in FWD go with a welded diff and get your car to turn-in with suspension adjustments and proper application of the handbrake.

    I think tire preparation and suspension tuning are FAR more important than the difference between a welded diff or an lsd .

    Tony

    Leave a comment:


  • max attack
    replied
    The phantomgrips are about $300 US,I talked with them last winter about my corolla gts.Since they don't offer one they said if I sent them a diff they'd custom build one for $350US-I assume same goes for any other model not offered.
    As far as oem fwd diffs,pretty much non existant in older model's(except maybe the jdm lsd tranny's for older B16's,like the one in my crx )
    In all my fwd ice racer's I ran welded diff's(both studded and rubber),made them great off the line for sure and seemed fine once moving as well.The colt is an open diff and was pretty good of the line and I never really noticed a problem on corner exits,so is a lsd worth the effort of a tear down and possible a custom diff and reassembly......not to sure.
    If you going for a class/overall title than leave no stone unturned(overall is a tough one,trust me )
    I also believe that having power in reserve is a must,there is always an opportunity to use it for a pass every race-even if its just to get alongside and take the line.Then again it is nice to beat cars with more power-been doing it for years!! (gives a good reason to cite for losing as well )

    Leave a comment:


  • Do It Sidewayz
    replied
    check out phantom grip

    they are about 300 ish i believe.

    Leave a comment:

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