Street Stud Class Change

[Crusher45]

As mentioned at the Driver's meeting if less than ten competitors show up for the SSC then they would run with studs. This is incorrect. Due to the fact that some of the SSC drivers are also running Studs. Therefore inorder to allow the running of both classes if not enough SSC show up then you will be grouped in with Classes 1 & 4. If you forsee any problems let me know. If you need tires call Tirecraft (Jeff) at 905.760.1130. We're getting close.

[tony mcgrath]

Guess all the guys in class 1 and 4 better not want to run street studs too...

Tony

[gully]

Maybe you have already checked this out but Rubber & Studs are not supposed to run together. I understood that this was for Insurance reasons. Insurance costs are based on Historical data and there is no data to show relative speeds of Street Stud and rubber cars at the same time.

You would think that even street studs would scuff track enough to allow rubber cars some real extra grip

CAS-OR Ice Rules actually prohibit SS & Rubber at same time. Unless a Bulletin has been issued changing 5.08 a)

5.08 GENERAL PROVISIONS
a) Rubber-to-ice and metal-to-ice Cars shall not practice or race together.


Pete g

[RedRabbit Racer]

Based on experience years ago, I don't think the difference in speeds between street studs and rubber will be any greater than the existing difference in speed between RWD and AWD.

However it does appear to be a clear contradition with the regulations.

[Do It Sidewayz]

i would have thought this was a big NO NO.

good thing i decided not to run both.

Performance wise....it might be interesting...i have a feeling a fresh set of rubber tires might be equal to the performance of street studs.....and for the one race a weekend when you run after studs. i believe that a fresh set of rubber tires will walk all over a street stud class car.


Seriously...i think running class 1 & 4, and adding SS1, SS2, SS4....it's gonna be carnage city.

You will have FWD, RWD, and AWD cars on the track with different levels of grip.

[Crusher45]

Street studs are no where near the height and compound as regular studs. And again that is if we need to put them in with anouther class. I myself will garuntee that SSC will have a race of their own unless studs cannot run that day due to conditions at the BARC weekend.

[Do It Sidewayz]

Dave......

Here's your problem.....the class is mandated to have a roll bar/cage.....on the basis that they were a "metal to ice" class.

Now......

Street studs are no where near the height and compound as regular studs.

So....you are saying that they aren't anywhere close to the grip levels of the Screw stud class.

and to get around the rule mentioned above...you effectively are calling Street studs a RUBBER TO ICE class.....soooo...then you don't need a roll bar for street studs as they are no longer a Metal to ice class.



If the case is that people want to run Street studs and Screw Studs.....from the rules...you have no choice but to run Street studs separately all the time.

Think about it...how many times do we actually have over 10 Screw stud cars???

But if one weekend you manage to run a separate race with 10 cars, and next weekend you have 9....it doesn't do anything for you time wise...

I myself will garuntee that SSC will have a race of their own unless studs cannot run that day due to conditions at the BARC weekend.

If you can gaurantee this.....then ammend this ammendment so that Street studs will run as a separate class in the order no matter the # of entries.


btw....i think there will need to be some serious though....If screw studs are cancelled for a day...i do not think that nessessarily means that Street studs is cancelled also. I think you will be surprised how little the street studs will chew the ice....however...i could be wrong.

[Crusher45]

Some clubs wanted a minimum 10 entries to run the series. Being a new series I say run it anyways and more may come.

Right now we have 6. In order to boost entries we had to get them out of the combined Stud class. People have spent a lot of money on this and they are also running the Stud class.

Unfortunately not everyone has bought tires that said they wanted a seperate Street Stud Series. A couple of driver's have indicated to Jeff they will run but not if they have to go in with the studs.

Chris you're right, on soft days we may be able to run SSC but not Studs. That's Tom's call.

As for speeds (that is why metal does not run with rubber) I don't see a big difference from a SS3 and Class 4. It is the speed factor why they are seperated.

[Do It Sidewayz]

i realise the majority of the difference is the speed factor....however it is also a case of roll over/side impact protection.

Metal to ice cars require a bar/cage and harnesses...Rubber to ice cars do not.

I agree with you...the speeds will be similar...however it is still a rule in the book i'm not sure you can get around. I'm like 99% positive that this rule was set by the insurance providers....if they found out we are running metal to ice and rubber to ice cars on the track at the same time during racing conditions we will have a problem...because no matter what.....A SSC tire still has METAL studs......and is a metal to ice tire. I'm not sure we want to see the consequence we will see if that happens.

One might want to contact ASN, who is the provider of insurance for the events, and see what they have to say about it.....however it's prolly not worth anything since i'm not sure they know the difference, or the rule in question.

PLus...might it not be an idea to take a poll of the class 1 and 4 drivers before a final decision is made??? It's bad enough that Class 4 drivers need to deal with Class 1 cars, and vice versa. If we need to deal with lapping/being lapped by SSC cars also..i'm not sure how many drivers in the classes will want this to happen.


oh...and BTW......Yes...i'm well aware i'm Guilty..i was the one pushing the class, came up with the idea, and it's one week to racing and i just ordered rubber tires....Why??? well it made more sense....i can split the car with my co-driver in rubber classes, effectively splitting all costs. With street studs i would have needed to buy 6 SSC tires, and he would have to buy 4 or more Rubber to ice tires. Oh yeah..i do wanna show you all that 4wd cars can from from a lap back and win the Action Front Shootout

Now...if someone goes out and balls up their SSC car (which might happen)..i may be persuaded to buy their tires off them....but i can't run rubber and street studs in the same weekend....so were up the creek.


If you want the 3 extra entries you might have from people running SSC and Screw studs...you need to run the class separate all year, no if and or buts.

If making SSC a separate class all year is not an option...well then these drivers wanting to do both are SOL.


Don't get me wrong here...your prolly thinking i'm argueing this because i want to run both.... that's not the case. It's because i am a class 1 and 4 competitor and i don't want street studs running in our races..WHY??? because there is already enough carnage between 4wd and RWD cars...Hell 75% of the damage on my car is from RWD CARS!!!! We throw SSC in there and we might as well plate the entire thing with 3/4" steel and run spike hubcaps.

[Crusher45]

Ok the original point is missed. I will be running the SSC in seperate races on the BARC weekend. If for some reason the other organizers don't want to, then they can put them into Class 1 & 4. They can run together because the speeds are close. It has nothing to do with a cage. I know of a few rubber cars that have full cages with extended impact beams. Does this mean they cannot race with other rubber cars?

Again why put SSC in 1 & 4 because the speed is the same if Class 4 cars can catch SSC. This is not an insurance thing, it's speed. Also with Class 1 & 4 having the least amount of entries the past few years this helps boost the field by 6 cars IF they are combined.

We have 50% of the SSC already running in the Stud class so to be fair to them is to have the option of going into 1 & 4. I don't know what happened to all the people that said they would run in the SSC. You know it's not to late. Tirecraft has the tires.

[Crusher45]

Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz
we might as well plate the entire thing with 3/4" steel and run spike hubcaps.

I like it!!! Chariots and horses too???

[Do It Sidewayz]

ok.....if it's speed difference or not....it's still a rule int he book saying "metal to ice and rubber to ice cars cannot be ont he track at the same time"

You can't just say well since SSC cars are slower they can run together......the rule says metal to ice. SSC cars clearly get their grip from the 100 or so Street studs, which are metal.

You then need to ammend the rule stated above.... 8.05 or whatever the heck the number is. You have then opened up a completely different can of worms.

effectively no matter which way you ammend the rules, SSC will then effectively be called a "rubber to ice" class, in which you come back to the rule that SSC cars must conform to the rules for Metal to ice car prep. Now in one place you call them a Metal to Ice class, and in another a "rubber to ice" class.

[jeffrey]

?

Chris first off, you don't need to buy 6 tires, that's just the maximum. Secondly your a flip flopper and I want my number back! Thirdly FWD is almost always faster than 4WD. Oh and God forbid you might have to drive around a slower car. That's ok I've had good ideas and backed out too!!!!

Jeff :

[Crusher45]

Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz

effectively no matter which way you ammend the rules, SSC will then effectively be called a "rubber to ice" class, in which you come back to the rule that SSC cars must conform to the rules for Metal to ice car prep. Now in one place you call them a Metal to Ice class, and in another a "rubber to ice" class.

You made the rules, I just put them in the book.

[Do It Sidewayz]

actually.. i was probably the only one saying street studs didn't need a cage and stuff.....everyone else thought we did...on the main basis of Metal to ice rules....i guess it just stuck.


Jeff...you can't have your number back i know...it was a good idea and still is, i just couldn't put together the right package to follow through...maybe next year. and it's not because i don't want to pass a slower car...hell us 4wd guys have lapped enough rwd guys. I'm not so worried about the front running class 4 cars...it's the more middle of the pace class 1 and 4 cars where you might run into problems. oh yeah...4WD is FASTAR!!