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looking back at the 2007 CSC

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  • looking back at the 2007 CSC

    I am curious to hear input from observers and participants of this years CSC.
    I am interested in knowing the official number of participants for the event too.
    As an observer ( I showed up at 12pm Sunday) I heard and witnessed all sort of things that I thought couldn't happen.
    Issues dealing with run groups, tech and car classification, rookie drivers at Mosport etc.

    While I heard soley competitor sides of the stories (mainly from Quebec) I am curious to hear all GOOD and BAD issues.

    The reason I ask this is because I probably will volunteer to help organise the 2008 CSC effort and I would like to apply things that went well and avoid things that went wrong.

    This is not a pointing fingers post but moreover a learning process post.

    I have linked this post to the main FSAQ forum to get their input too.

    http://cadl.qc.ca/portail/index.php?...&p=17139#17139

    Thanks
    Last edited by bbqman; 10-13-2007, 05:49 PM. Reason: adding link
    Carl Wener

    PERRY PERFORMANCE & COMPETITION

    450 662 8886
    carlwener@hotmail.com

    HJC-CANADIAN STILO IMPORTER-PERFORMANCE FRICTION -HAWK-HOOSIER-COBRA SEATS-SPARCO-AIMSPORTS

  • #2
    Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

    I think the initial organization prior to the event was good. Everything was quite smooth up until the weather got wet. I think some further consideration to run order should have been made before proceeding with the runs after the rain break. Although nobody can predict the weather, I think that it would have been better to allow Z group a run later in the day, just in case the track dried up. Sending them out in the rain immediately after their previous session was also wet didn't even give them a hope of a dry run. I suppose the argument is that nobody knew that the track would dry out later on - and the counterpoint is that we should at least give them a hope. Running later when it may dry up is better than running now when it is wet for sure.

    Anyways, after the fact, there is nothing we can do.

    For next time, can we make it a consideration to prioritize run order so that each run group gets an opportunity for at least one dry run? I think it is desirable both from a scoring perspective and a fun-per-dollar perspective.

    That being said, Sunday ran quite smooth. I was particularly impressed that we got all 4 runs in, the last few sessions ran like clockwork.
    Jonathan Weir
    Number: 5
    Class: Yours!
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

      This might seem petty....... but after paying 350 bucks and driving my butt off to place third in my class I didn't even get a mention let alone a trophy.(in Quebec we got trophy's but they were blank) I think if we want to attract new participants, We should get something for our accomplishments (and 300 to 350 bucks)for 1st 2nd and 3rd like in all other motorsports....petty maybe but Id like to show something in my old age to my grandchildren.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

        The event was organized well. The run-group issue was my only concern, but considering the amount of things that happened that weekend, everything was handled well. Especially sunday, I was only expecting 2 runs so I was very happy when I realized we were going to be able to squeeze in 4.

        Originally posted by shawn cormier View Post
        This might seem petty....... but after paying 350 bucks and driving my butt off to place third in my class I didn't even get a mention let alone a trophy.(in Quebec we got trophy's but they were blank) I think if we want to attract new participants, We should get something for our accomplishments (and 300 to 350 bucks)for 1st 2nd and 3rd like in all other motorsports....petty maybe but Id like to show something in my old age to my grandchildren.
        My dads a secret fan of your car, whenever I come home he always asks me how the red Trans-am did! He has a red WS6 as well, but his is a 98. I snapped a pic of your car at one of the earlier events and he seen it, and since then he's always been interested in how it does. This time I was able to say you placed 3rd in class, and I even took a video clip of you flying by the pit area to show him
        --
        Chris De Freitas
        www.facebook.com/stagefourmotorsports

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

          Originally posted by shawn cormier View Post
          This might seem petty....... but after paying 350 bucks and driving my butt off to place third in my class I didn't even get a mention let alone a trophy
          I'm pretty sure that I recall them mentioning your name specifically. Top three in each class were mentioned at the driver's meeting and we were told to come up for hats at the end.

          It's no secret what Chuck has mentioned in previous posts about the Keg raffle and such... Solosprint lost money this year. The lack of T-Shirts or a reduced number of trophies was not the fault of the organizing club, it was just not a good year.
          sigpic

          Stephen, SPDA VP, OTA Director, CCC Member
          OTA: SGT1 ! -=- CSCS: SSA #842

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

            Correct me if I am wrong, I thought I counted only 25 cars on Sunday afternoon. Many of which were getting rerun laps. Why did most people leave before the end of the event?
            Is this why 4 runs were possible instead of 2?

            Again, not looking to blame anybody but if the CSC is to survive into 2008, corrective measures are needed.
            Carl Wener

            PERRY PERFORMANCE & COMPETITION

            450 662 8886
            carlwener@hotmail.com

            HJC-CANADIAN STILO IMPORTER-PERFORMANCE FRICTION -HAWK-HOOSIER-COBRA SEATS-SPARCO-AIMSPORTS

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

              There were times from 48 cars in the results on Sunday vs. 51 on Saturday, if you check. Some cars were broken by the afternoon, as always. (Wall, wheel bearing, and tranny among the SPDA camp.) Some folks packed up early to have Thanksgiving dinner with their families, so you can opt to have it on a non-Holiday weekend if you prefer.

              Mainly, because there wasn't rain and there were no red flags, things ran faster. And TAC was on the ball calling run groups to the grid in advance. The Presswoods did a good job pushing people on the grid.

              They said at the driver's meeting on Sunday morning that they would try for four sessions, and if they couldn't do it, they would finish at a complete session and then give lapping. Well, the fourth wrapped up around 5pm and there was no lapping. I don't understand the inquiry... Were the Quebec folks complaining to you that there were four sessions on the Sunday? It's not impossible to get four runs on the big track when things run without red flags.

              In 2006 there were 55 cars at Mosport in sunny weather and two red flags (including one of the longest oil clean-ups we've ever had) and TAC managed three complete sessions.

              In 2005 there were 70 cars in sunny weather and a red flag and they managed 3.5 sessions.
              sigpic

              Stephen, SPDA VP, OTA Director, CCC Member
              OTA: SGT1 ! -=- CSCS: SSA #842

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                Carl, i dont understand the point of your initial post, and the tone of your latest post

                even though i wasnt at this years nationals, i can say with confidence that the event ran like any other event.

                with the exception of that one time the timing equipment was left at the CASC office, all of the events i have ever been to, including the one that i organized myself, had on average the same amount of screwups and suprises, yet everyone pulled together and had a great event.

                unless you are trying to voice the complains of our eastern brethren, i dont understand what it is that you are trying to dig at?
                set tire pressures to winning!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                  You get reruns when you get a yellow flag, or timing feels that you were held up somehow (even if no flag is thrown). I assure you noone got extra laps because they bought us beer the previous night.

                  As for the Saturday run group order, it was NOT changed, and that is perhaps the issue the Z group has. Personally, I feel it was the right decision ... the run order was posted, and the organizer stuck to it, instead of changing at the last minute. If it HAD changed, maybe the X or Y group would be the ones complaining, and saying "why was the order changed from what was posted?"

                  Saturday was a crappy day ... no doubt about it. It was however, no worse than our DDT event, where weather also wrecked havoc with our runs. It happens ... not much we can do about it. Sunday was a great day on the other hand, and I think everyone had a great time.

                  The tech inspections (I assume you mean impound) were simply a spot check of car classifications, and were performed by me personally. I don't think anything unfair was done here ... most cars checked were fine, and others that were not were cleared up. if there was an issue with this, I'd like to know what it was.
                  Arek Wojciechowski
                  8legs Racing, SPC #77
                  http://www.8legsRacing.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                    BTW, it's normal for us in the Ontario series to NOT do the same run order on Saturday as Sunday because of complaints of benefit to one run group over another. The rain could just of easily hit harder in the later day than earlier and X Group would have gotten hosed. The slightly randomized order TAC created for Saturday gave mixed breaks to minimize grid changes.

                    Once a run order is posted, it should stay that way unless there is a safety or unanimous reason for change, which there wasn't.
                    sigpic

                    Stephen, SPDA VP, OTA Director, CCC Member
                    OTA: SGT1 ! -=- CSCS: SSA #842

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                      Originally posted by Slowpoke View Post
                      Some folks packed up early to have Thanksgiving dinner with their families, so you can opt to have it on a non-Holiday weekend if you prefer.

                      I don't understand the inquiry... Were the Quebec folks complaining to you that there were four sessions on the Sunday? It's not impossible to get four runs on the big track when things run without red flags.
                      I am not too good at double quoting, so I will do it 1 at a time.

                      What I am trying to accomplish in this thread is finding solutions so that CSC in 2008 exists or is even worth considering holding. You must agree that 51 entries for a national is not what this event is suppose to be about.

                      Before assuming anything, I am asking questions. We agree 51 is low for a nationals right? Why?
                      Is it because of the holiday weekend? Is it becuase it is late in the season.
                      May be a combination of both.

                      My inquiry has nothing to do with what the CADL contingent may have expected. 4 sessions is great, I was just commenting that it is easy to run 4 sessions when half the field is packed up. Nothing more. I also realize that red flags play a big part in the lost time.
                      Carl Wener

                      PERRY PERFORMANCE & COMPETITION

                      450 662 8886
                      carlwener@hotmail.com

                      HJC-CANADIAN STILO IMPORTER-PERFORMANCE FRICTION -HAWK-HOOSIER-COBRA SEATS-SPARCO-AIMSPORTS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                        Originally posted by bbqman View Post
                        I am not too good at double quoting, so I will do it 1 at a time.

                        What I am trying to accomplish in this thread is finding solutions so that CSC in 2008 exists or is even worth considering holding. You must agree that 51 entries for a national is not what this event is suppose to be about.

                        Before assuming anything, I am asking questions. We agree 51 is low for a nationals right? Why?
                        Is it because of the holiday weekend? Is it becuase it is late in the season.
                        May be a combination of both.

                        My inquiry has nothing to do with what the CADL contingent may have expected. 4 sessions is great, I was just commenting that it is easy to run 4 sessions when half the field is packed up. Nothing more. I also realize that red flags play a big part in the lost time.
                        keep in mind Mosport is not shannonville, and Mosport is not St.Eustache

                        i was not at the event because i do not have a car worthy enough to drive it, and personaly, i dont want to run mosport in a unprepared car.

                        i'm sure there are enough competitiors that just dont want to be there.


                        also, why is 51 a low number? "nationals" is supposed to be the best from the best, not random riff raff comming out to test their new shiny ferrari or whatever.

                        did we lose money on the nationals, last i checked the accounting was not in the read for this event.
                        set tire pressures to winning!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                          Originally posted by thgear View Post
                          Carl, i dont understand the point of your initial post, and the tone of your latest post

                          even though i wasnt at this years nationals, i can say with confidence that the event ran like any other event.

                          with the exception of that one time the timing equipment was left at the CASC office, all of the events i have ever been to, including the one that i organized myself, had on average the same amount of screwups and suprises, yet everyone pulled together and had a great event.

                          unless you are trying to voice the complains of our eastern brethren, i dont understand what it is that you are trying to dig at?
                          I explained the point of my original post in the post itself. Serge- if it is still not clear, please call me or PM me and I will re-explain it.

                          Unlike you Serge, I have been to past nationals and I DID observe this last one too.

                          What I am trying to get to is the plain facts about the event.
                          Again, I feel that a CSC should be more than a glorified regional event and I want to be part of a successful 2008 CSC. In order to accomplish this, we need to fix mistakes and amplify the successes.
                          No where in my comments am I trying to belittle the event organisers, in fact I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.

                          Serge- If it helps you understand my motives, pretend that we are organising another event similar to this one in 2008- but we want it to be bigger and better- and I am one of the volunteers organising.....

                          cheers
                          Carl Wener

                          PERRY PERFORMANCE & COMPETITION

                          450 662 8886
                          carlwener@hotmail.com

                          HJC-CANADIAN STILO IMPORTER-PERFORMANCE FRICTION -HAWK-HOOSIER-COBRA SEATS-SPARCO-AIMSPORTS

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                            Originally posted by bbqman View Post

                            Again, I feel that a CSC should be more than a glorified regional event and I

                            Serge- If it helps you understand my motives, pretend that we are organising another event similar to this one in 2008- but we want it to be bigger and better- and I am one of the volunteers organising.....

                            cheers
                            much better!
                            set tire pressures to winning!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: looking back at the 2007 CSC

                              Originally posted by ScotcH View Post
                              You get reruns when you get a yellow flag, or timing feels that you were held up somehow (even if no flag is thrown). I assure you noone got extra laps because they bought us beer the previous night.

                              As for the Saturday run group order, it was NOT changed, and that is perhaps the issue the Z group has. Personally, I feel it was the right decision ... the run order was posted, and the organizer stuck to it, instead of changing at the last minute. If it HAD changed, maybe the X or Y group would be the ones complaining, and saying "why was the order changed from what was posted?"

                              Saturday was a crappy day ... no doubt about it. It was however, no worse than our DDT event, where weather also wrecked havoc with our runs. It happens ... not much we can do about it. Sunday was a great day on the other hand, and I think everyone had a great time.

                              The tech inspections (I assume you mean impound) were simply a spot check of car classifications, and were performed by me personally. I don't think anything unfair was done here ... most cars checked were fine, and others that were not were cleared up. if there was an issue with this, I'd like to know what it was.
                              For the run order, I agree what is posted in the sups or on the morning of the first day, are what should be used, no matter the conditions.

                              I was told that organisers pushed to the front of the line all cars that were on rain tires, when the conditions got wet. I was told that several cars that were scheduled to run, but were on dry tires, were sent to the back of the line for later runs.... If this is true, it is not right.

                              As for tech inspection, once the event has ended, or started for that matter, the only inspection for compliance can be made by a competitor verifying that a car is classes properly.
                              It is not up to the organisers (even less the ASN) to spot check cars for legality, this is the sole responsibility of the competitors. The tech inspector CAN disqualify a car that shows up to grid,with an obvious rules" violation...ie Race slicks on a non mod car, aftermarket-turbo on a car carrying no pips...etc.

                              If this is not the way everyone percieves the rules, they need to be clarified.
                              Carl Wener

                              PERRY PERFORMANCE & COMPETITION

                              450 662 8886
                              carlwener@hotmail.com

                              HJC-CANADIAN STILO IMPORTER-PERFORMANCE FRICTION -HAWK-HOOSIER-COBRA SEATS-SPARCO-AIMSPORTS

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