Requests for Base Car list updates here

[Maddog]

Hi John P

Can you add the following to the CCDB? Already planning for 2022..lol

2012-2016 Hyundai Veloster Turbo
2800 lbs
201 HP
6-speed manual

[John P]

Subaru WRX with CVT is in ccdb.

JohnP

[bmtaylor]

Hi OTA. Please add to the to the CCDB Base Car List:

Subaru WRX, Sport, CVT (2019)

Looking forward to returning to OTA for the 2021 season!

[John P]

Hi Henry,

Continuing with the hypothetical comparison, of M2 386 hp in your 135i. If a competitor was to take the suspension sPIPs suggested, here is what it would look like;

Alignment (includes Control arms) 1 sPIP
Shocks 2 sPIPs
Springs/ride height 4 sPIPs
Protruding wheels/flares 2 s PIPs

Total is 9 sPIPs. Convert this to 7.1 PIPs using Conversion Chart on bottom of Rule Book page 40.

So our hypothetical PI would be 76.5 + 7.1 = 83.6 in SGT3. Now if you use up all these Suspension points, would you put in a basic M2 Street suspension?

Personally I would install the very best Coilovers, control arms and alignment plus wide wheels/flares I could afford.

Maybe try going on the ccdb tool, to classify your proposed car with mods. You can run a number of scenarios to optimize. Once you Submit your Classification I will view it and provide extra comments.

JohnP

[Hqfoto]

Hi Henry,

Interesting comparison of 2011 135i with 7spd DTC to 2016 M2 with 7 spd DTC. Here is ccdb info;

135i 3439 lbs, 330 Hp, 55 HI, 72.9 PI in GT2
M2 3505 lbs, 386 Hp, 65 HI, 79.1 PI in GT1
Custom ccdb Test mode of 135i with M2 engine/Hp, 3439 lbs, 386 Hp, 55 Hi, 76.5 PI in GT1

So your 135i with 386 Hp (56 Hp more than stock 135i) would be 2.6 PI lower than M2. You could add LSD and still be 1.1 PI lower

JohnP

I see where you are going with the prep points with the engine but respectfully, the 135i needs a lot of suspension work to keep up with the M2 on a road circuit.

135i is a narrow body, parts bin car designed to use RFT (soft suspension & bushings to compensate for stiff tires). As such, it will need all 12 sPIP including points for control arms and protruding tires. But just taking 8sPiP for wheelwell, camber, shocks and springs would push me above 80 PI?

EDIT: wouldn't the increased power be 6PiP ie. 3 for ECU and 3 for boost?

Rulebook link is down so I can't verify.
https://time-attack.ca/wp-content/up...-0.94-LIVE.pdf

[John P]

Hi Henry,

Interesting comparison of 2011 135i with 7spd DTC to 2016 M2 with 7 spd DTC. Here is ccdb info;

135i 3439 lbs, 330 Hp, 55 HI, 72.9 PI in GT2
M2 3505 lbs, 386 Hp, 65 HI, 79.1 PI in GT1
Custom ccdb Test mode of 135i with M2 engine/Hp, 3439 lbs, 386 Hp, 55 Hi, 76.5 PI in GT1

So your 135i with 386 Hp (56 Hp more than stock 135i) would be 2.6 PI lower than M2. You could add LSD and still be 1.1 PI lower

JohnP

[Hqfoto]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for your questions.

1. DCT transmissions are faster shifting than Manuals, plus drivers do not have to be proficient at "heel and toe" for smooth down shifting for corners. Also with DCT there is less weight transfer when shifting so better tire track contact resulting in faster lap times. Comparable tests tests have DCT cars faster than MT. The CCC decided to add 5 HI (1.5 PI), for these new generation auto transmissions.
2. Looking at a lot of 135i dyno runs it appears hp between the two engines is very close, so we left it at 330 crank hp. BTW BMW kept the same 300 hp rating.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk016fEtiRAE49
3tDDmGh4AWkT5ocg:1609783745532&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=Dyno+BMW+2011+i135&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP0MTi74LuA hVITd8KHV7lAM4QjJkEegQIAhAB&biw=1742&bih=850#imgrc=F1s0GT8MVQRISM

A .4 PI or 1.1 PI won't much difference. If you are a newbie to track, then getting instruction and experience will be best gains you can make.

JohnP

Thanks for the explanation and the advise.

I understand that no rating system is perfect but clearly some cars have a huge advantage like the BMW M-series, Porsche S & GTS , Chevy 1LE & Z51, etc. There is some irony here as I opted for the 135i instead of a M2.

By ways of comparison:

• an 135i with mild springs and springs has the same PI as a M2 in GT2 . M2 would still have better handling, LSD and more power
• an 135i with M2-like mods would run in SGT1 with PI of 90.6 instead of GT2 with 77.9 PI. adding M2 turbos to 135 would bump it into modified.

[John P]

Hi Henry,

Thanks for your questions.

1. DCT transmissions are faster shifting than Manuals, plus drivers do not have to be proficient at "heel and toe" for smooth down shifting for corners. Also with DCT there is less weight transfer when shifting so better tire track contact resulting in faster lap times. Comparable tests tests have DCT cars faster than MT. The CCC decided to add 5 HI (1.5 PI), for these new generation auto transmissions.
2. Looking at a lot of 135i dyno runs it appears hp between the two engines is very close, so we left it at 330 crank hp. BTW BMW kept the same 300 hp rating.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk016fEtiRAE49
3tDDmGh4AWkT5ocg:1609783745532&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=Dyno+BMW+2011+i135&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiP0MTi74LuA hVITd8KHV7lAM4QjJkEegQIAhAB&biw=1742&bih=850#imgrc=F1s0GT8MVQRISM

A .4 PI or 1.1 PI won't much difference. If you are a newbie to track, then getting instruction and experience will be best gains you can make.

JohnP

[Hqfoto]

Hi Henry,

The ccdb has the 135i in it now.

JohnP

Thanks John. Couple of questions:


1. Why does the 2011-13 DCT have a better suspension rating of 55 than the same car with MT with suspension rating of 50. DCT doesn't make the car handle better and either car has a mechanical LSD like the M-cars.
2. there is no change for the power of 2011-13 N55 engines even though they have 5% less horsepower than the older 2008-10 N54 engine?

Or simplified, I have a heavier car with less power than the 2008-10 135i on the same chassis but I have a higher PI by .4 ... or a higher PI of 1.1 compared to the same year and engine with a manual transmission.

Just trying to verify and understand the information on the ccdb. Thanks

[John P]

Hi Henry,

The ccdb has the 135i in it now.

JohnP

[Hqfoto]

Hi Henry,

Do you know the Brand of dyno those articles were using, so we can convert to Crank HP from WHP?

John P

Hi John,

Automotive Mag used a DynoJet dyno for the measurements and took the lowest results of each of the engines variants tested.

The variation for the N54 engines were 1-2.6% and the N55 was 1-4%.

Cheers Henry

[John P]

Hi Henry,

Do you know the Brand of dyno those articles were using, so we can convert to Crank HP from WHP?

John P

[Hqfoto]

Requesting correction to current 2008 BMW 135i classification information.

The 2008 135i information in Car Classification isn’t correct. Can you remove the current information and replace with the following:

Thanks

2008-2010 BMW 135i N54 6MT/AT

Weight 3373 lbs (automatic is 11 lbs heavier which has minimal impact on PI)

Source: Page 20 https://www.auto-brochures.com/makes...Coupe_2008.pdf

Note that power is correct at 330 HP, as that’s the mid-point of adjusted dyno results of 277 to 282 RWHP or 327 to 333 HP.
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/b...imageid=657285

[Hqfoto]

Newbie here, requesting classification for 2011-2013 BMW 135i in both 6MT and DCT versions.

Supporting information follows. Thanks, Henry


A. 2011-2013 BMW 135i N55 6MT

Weight 3373 lbs

Dyno'd Power 315 HP HP (300 claimed)


B. 2011-2013 BMW 135i N55 DCT

Weight 3439 lbs

Dyno'd Power 315 HP (300 claimed)


Power justification

A. N55 engine uses single turbo (introduced on 2011 models) and makes less power then previous gen N54 with 2 turbo config.

B. Both claimed to be 300 HP but generally N55 seems to have less power and broader powerband.

C. Automotive magazine dyno’d early N54 (2008), late N54 (2010) and N55 (2011). They found N55 to make 11-16 RWHP less than N54.

1. Adjusting 266 RWHP for the N55 on the DynoJet used to measure the cars in the article, we get 311 HP (ie. 266/.855) but perhaps 315 HP is a better number.
2. Charts: https://www.automobilemag.com/news/b...imageid=657285
3. Analysis: https://www.automobilemag.com/news/b...5is-dyno-test/

Weight

1. BMW 2011 brochure page 62 https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/b...11-1series.pdf

[LemonJus]

Looking for classification on the 2017+ Hyundai Elantra Sport 1.6T sedan, 6-spd manual, but it's also available with a 7-spd DCT if that makes a difference. Neither model has a LSD unfortunately.

6-spd manual
3042 lbs
201 HP

7-spd DCT
3109 lbs
201 HP

Specs here; https://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/elan...eatures-specs/

Thanks.

Elantra now added to the CCDB for both the 6 speed and 7 speed DCT.