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  • Toyo RA-1 vs R888

    With the racing season well underway now and many of us using Toyo's, how are the new R888's working compared to the
    old RA-1s?

    Though I haven't used RA-1s, the R888's seemed to work well in general for both Solo 2 (wet and dry) and Solosprint. A little "squishy" at Shannonville, but worked well at Mosport last weekend.

    Klaus, if you are checking in here, you were planing on running R888s in the morning and RA-1s in the afternoon. Did you? And any comments if you did.

    I ask as I am likely going to need new tires before the the Calabogie Solosprint event once the next 2 solo 2 events finish off the shoulder on the R888s I have (already worn off one shoulder and flipped them; stock Mini's have no camber and are very hard on the tire shoulders).

    Depending on the feedback here, and assuming my size is available in both, I may consider getting RA-1s instead of the R888's.

    So comments on Toyo R888's vs RA-1s?
    Matt C
    OTA #38 Miata

  • #2
    Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

    RA-1s may be very hard to get in the size that you're looking for - they're a discontinued tire. Also, they'll be older rubber than the R-888. I'm not able to give a great comparison, as I haven't run them back to back since May. At that time the RA-1s were just hitting the sweet spot and the R-888s were brand new. Lap times didn't change much, but the R-888s took a bit of getting used to. Again, brand new versus tried and known.

    I know I'm faster now - but that's due to experience and not just the tires. All being said and done, I'd be getting R-888s again.
    Frank
    sigpicFrank - OTA #259 retired. I'm in BC now!

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    • #3
      Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

      I've heard from a very good source that alot of the Speed World Challenge teams have done ALOT of testing on the R888's and they are actually SLOWER than the RA1's. Something about the compound and carcas.
      sigpicK24/K20A powered 1999 Integra GS-R all motor
      2007 SGT1 #362
      2008 SGT3-R #362

      GT Sprints
      co-driving
      Phoenix Yellow 2000 Honda Civic car#363...GTC

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      • #4
        Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

        Originally posted by 1999_ITR View Post
        I've heard ... they are actually SLOWER than the RA1's. Something about the compound and carcas.
        But Toyo told us the compound and carcass of R888's was better .

        OMSC
        Current: 2011 Corvette Z06
        Previous: '06 Z06, '10 Corvette, '93 & '02 Camaro Z28's

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        • #5
          Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

          I have compared the R888 to the RA-1 all season so far.
          The RA-1 were last years', well worn down to a few grooves, just in the prime.
          The R888 were new, off course.
          At the first few events the the tires were hard to compare (the R888 being new), but I liked the solid feel of the new R888 over the usually squirmy feel of the RA-1 when new.
          Other then the Solo Sprint I have done some Lapping days and Driving Schools, so the R888 has worn down pretty well now too.

          The first two events at DDT I changed on both days the R888 and the RA-1 between runs and they were timewise and feel very similar.

          At the Shannonville (Fabi) event I used the R888 first I could not believe how little grip they had. I was sliding and drifting when lapping and on my first run and could not find any grip. I swapped to RA-1 and I was driving like on rails.
          Funny thing is that I could only improve my lap times a tiny bit. ???
          On Sunday at the Pro track I just left the RA-1 on.

          This last weekend I had first the RA-1 on Saturday at the school. The car was pushing quite a bit and really scrubbing and squeeling over the concrete, but I was getting used to new springs too so I am not sure if it was just the tires or I needed to adjust my driving. My Lap times on the G2X showed equal times as on Sunday.
          Sunday morning I thought to try the R888 just for the morning lapping, but was really impressed with the improved grip over the concrete .. and no tire squeeling either. So I left them on for the competition. Times were the same, but they got really squirmy in my second run and I could not push any harder. So my first lap was the fastest.
          I wanted to change tires between run 2 & 3, but did not have the time to do so.

          I had a hard time to figure out the propper starting pressure when they were new. Now they seem to be much more stable or at least equal to the RA-1. At the beginning I started in the low 30s and they shot up to mid 40s after a session and I had to adjust them several times during the day. They wore a lot lower down the outside wall on the front than the RA-1. The centre tread was gone long before the rest, which indicated that the pressure is too low. However when they were hot in the 40s, they were all over the place. I was told that the centre portion of the rubber is softer than towards the edge.

          I ordered a new set of RA-1 (shaved) as my old ones are pretty close to be done, actually the R888 dont have much tread left and we will see how long they last when they are bald.

          I hope this helps,
          Klaus
          BMW 325es
          Solosprint SGT2, #192
          Solo 2 D/Mod, # 192

          The older I get, the faster I am ...

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          • #6
            Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

            We're back to RA1s. R888s lasted 4 events and corded. Felt good initially but tapered off quick.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

              Originally posted by msix View Post
              I ordered a new set of RA-1 (shaved) as my old ones are pretty close to be done, actually the R888 dont have much tread left and we will see how long they last when they are bald.

              I hope this helps,
              That helps. They sound like they are close enough its a toss up for most of us. If the RA-1's are slightly faster as mentioned above, I would guess the difference is small enough that the Mini and my newby-ness to Solosprint would not be able to take advantage of the difference anyway.

              I'd be curious on the rain performance difference if anyone has any? In case we hit some wet events later this summer.



              Originally posted by RRRex View Post
              We're back to RA1s. R888s lasted 4 events and corded. Felt good initially but tapered off quick.
              Less life, in theory at least, means softer rubber and better grip. Any thoughts on the performance (cost aside)?
              Matt C
              OTA #38 Miata

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              • #8
                Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                Originally posted by RRRex View Post
                We're back to RA1s. R888s lasted 4 events and corded. Felt good initially but tapered off quick.
                Hmmm, sounds like a crappy version of a Hoosier? (great initial performance, but steadily diminishing)
                OMSC
                Current: 2011 Corvette Z06
                Previous: '06 Z06, '10 Corvette, '93 & '02 Camaro Z28's

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                • #9
                  Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                  We tried them on our touring car today @ ICAR but having run on that concrete surface before it's hard to quantify a difference...
                  Tod.
                  Crew Chief: - CTCC Car #41
                  www.twinlakesmc.org

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                  • #10
                    Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                    They had Hoosier R6 life span without the grip. Found they heat up much hotter than RA1s did so we were constantly pulling air out of them. We too found the first lap the fastest then they started to feel greasy. Ours were shaved BTW. After 2 events on the fronts we ran them on Tuesdays Kensei day at Mosport. They looked really good with an ideal amount of tread on them. The track felt really greasy in the morning which is normal for Mosport so we went with really conservative suspension settings. Found a lot of push on entry and the tail got happy mid corner. Found it was hard to get heat into the rears, but second and third lap that goes away but you lose front tire grip as the tires heat up. Got quicker runs on the second session on the R888s, but felt well under the pace for GT2 class coming up on the weekend. Martin took them out on the 3rd session and said they were too greasy and he didn't feel confident on them. We swapped on our rain tires which are 205/50/15s RA1s compared to the 225/45/15 R888s. We call them rains cuz they've only been used like twice in the dry but you could hardly call them full tread. 2 of them had a manufacturer date of 2001, the other 2 2003. The grip came back pretty quickly and we could adjust the suspension to make the car more neutral. We took off 2 seconds off our time in the afternoon with oil dumped all the way down turn 2 and 8 that afternoon so we had to hold back in those corners. It made no sense. Will have to go through the G2X data to see where the time and grip was going. Our back straight speeds were down by 2-3mph at the top of the hill on the RA1s - so took that to mean our 5b/c exit grip was affected by thinner, older tires. Overall, 4 tires in 4 events doesn't make it cost effective for us. At their best, I would say they're about half second faster than the RA1s for the brief time that they're working properly. The longer you're out the slower they got for us. Then the grip falls off incredibly fast. The RA1s get stickier and stay constant as they heat up. Not sure they work well for our driving style which is pretty aggressive. Hot in - trail brake - hot out. A smoother style would probably keep them alive for longer. Thumbs down for us. Was really hoping they would give us the edge in our competitive class, but we're back to RA1s for the rest of the season and will have to find a new tire for next season. Maybe try the Nittos which are also made by Toyo from my understanding.
                    Last edited by RRRex; 07-11-2008, 08:10 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                      What about the V700 VictoRacers?? I know there are a least a couple competitors running them. I've gotten the impression they have similar "manners" and life as RA1's? But they still offer a -5 PIP class drop like the Toyos (if you're opposed to running "premium" tires and running up a class?)
                      OMSC
                      Current: 2011 Corvette Z06
                      Previous: '06 Z06, '10 Corvette, '93 & '02 Camaro Z28's

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                        I like them. Find them slightly less solid in the braking zones compared to RA1s, and more vague in the corners. They had some quality control issues which is why I stopped running them. Lost entire patches of newish rubber which took 7-8 months to replace under warranty. For me anyway, they tapered off pretty drastically. One lapped they gripped like hell, then they turned into street tires with no warning and mms of tread still left. They are faster, but bang for buck, it's hard to beat shaved RA1 IMO.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                          Originally posted by RRRex View Post
                          but bang for buck, it's hard to beat shaved RA1 IMO.
                          Until they run out of stock ...
                          OMSC
                          Current: 2011 Corvette Z06
                          Previous: '06 Z06, '10 Corvette, '93 & '02 Camaro Z28's

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                          • #14
                            Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                            Note; Hoosiers and Toyos 888s are about the same price and life. Im finding the Hoosiers faster and safer.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Toyo RA-1 vs R888

                              Originally posted by RRRex View Post
                              I like them. Find them slightly less solid in the braking zones compared to RA1s, and more vague in the corners. They had some quality control issues which is why I stopped running them. Lost entire patches of newish rubber which took 7-8 months to replace under warranty. For me anyway, they tapered off pretty drastically. One lapped they gripped like hell, then they turned into street tires with no warning and mms of tread still left. They are faster, but bang for buck, it's hard to beat shaved RA1 IMO.
                              I think you are referring to the Ecsta V700.

                              The VictoRacer is a good choice, and has a more rigid carcass than the Toyo. I like the tire, but it is definitely not the deal that the RA-1 is.
                              Pete Mills
                              Cheap, fast, reliable. Choose 2.

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