Insurance...sorry to bring it up

[johnnyjohnny]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

There seem to be alot of misconceptions in this thread, and it's much appreciated that we have a doctor and police officer clarifying some of them. It might be of benefit to come out to spectate at one of our events to see how we handle things from a liability and safety standpoint. ...Don't forget to sign the waiver.

I've worked at Mosport on PCA races, so I have experienced how things are organized (and yes, I signed the waiver :-). I'm not disputing anything here. As someone who now wants to get on track, I'm just researching the risks outside of the obvious ones.

Johnny, you mentioned that you may have experiencing lapping? It is probable that the minimum insurance that some lapping organizers have is much less than the liability insurance that ASN covers and you are taking more risk attending those events than ours in the rare event that you may need to submit a personal injury claim.

I agree completely. I was planning on doing testing at TMP this year, but I need to look more closely at their policy, too.

[johnnyjohnny]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

but to cancel your insurance? What do they gain?

what do they LOSE by having you insured and have you crash if they can just deny coverage?

From what I've read insurance claims almost always exceed premiums. Insurance companies may be just cooking the books to come up with that, but if it's correct, then it would be in their interest to reduce their higher risk (according to the actuarial tables, not "real" risk) customers as much as possible. Force them to move to Facility, which is risk shared by all insurance companies in Ontario (and higher premiums), and therefore profit increases.

[bsclywilly]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

From what I've read insurance claims almost always exceed premiums. Insurance companies may be just cooking the books to come up with that, but if it's correct, ...

Wow, sounds like a horrible business model! I wonder how they pay their employees.

[johnnyjohnny]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Wow, sounds like a horrible business model! I wonder how they pay their employees.

Investments.

[MazdaMatt]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Investments.

This is why everybody suddenly become a more dangerous driver back in 2008... they lost too much on investments and needed higher insurance rates to puff up the pockets.

[thekid]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Wow, sounds like a horrible business model! I wonder how they pay their employees.

Having done IT Consulting for an insurance company before, I learned a bit about the business, and for the particular company I was at their goals were to profit $0.01 for every $1.00 of premiums charged.

As indicated above, they make their normally large profits off of investments (which they have lots of) because for all the premiums they sell they have to have the capital (which is invested) to back it up in case they actually had to pay out on every policy they have (or something like that).

[Bubblecar]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

I've also heard rumors of "spies" recording plate numbers. But if this is actually something insurance companies are doing and have the right to cancel your insurance for, then there must be people on this forum who have experienced this.

I dismiss this tactic as largely folklore or myth - because it is just not necesary (at least not in the case of Solosprint). All an insurance company has to do is go to the Solosprint Website and get a copy of the results and standings. There you find full names, dates competed and even the type of car driven. I am not aware of any actual cases of drivers being hassled because of their name in the results.

I do know that there is a lot of concern in Autoslalom circles and am not sure what to make of it. (that's why they traditionally only post first names)

After the last CASC-OR Awards Banquet that I organized in 2008 (the first joint banquet with Race, Solosprint & Autoslalom) - Norris McDonald published a full list with the names (first and last) of all award winners in all divisions - in his Wheels column in the Toronto Star. Autoslalomers were not at all happy with this. But I never heard of any problems resulting from the publication of the their names. (?)


Nick

[finboy]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

QUESTION - Has anyone in CASC-OR ever actually had their insurance cancelled for competing?

you have PM

[axino03]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

From what I have read here your insurance company is not going to cancel your policy if you are competing in a timed event. They most likely are not going to find out. If you tell them then that is another story. What a lot of people want to know is "what happens if?"
I have been to an open lapping event, and have seen someone role a newer car (2-3 years old probably worth 30k). This was a daily driven, plated car. He over did it and the worst case scenario happened. Luckily nobody was injured. I am pretty sure the owner was not going to pay to replace the car.
As I was leaving the event, I saw the car being put on a flatbed outside on the public street. I am assuming he told his insurance he lost control on public streets.
What do you do in this scenario? I think I would have done the same thing.
I personally drive something that is not my daily driver and is not worth that much to the insurance company. So it is not worth claiming anything if my premiums are going to go up. But what do you do if you drive a premium car and you wreck it?
I was at another lapping event ("driver training event") and someone lost it at the infamous turn 2. This was also a plated and insured car. But it was someone’s weekend toy (It had slicks on and the driver/owner knew the track well and was very experienced). This did give me a scare because my brother was riding shot gun when it happened. Luckily nobody was injured. In this case I heard the owner received full appraisal value for his car because he told his insurance company that he was participating in a driver training program and had an instructor with him when he was on the track. He only told a little lie.
So I guess if you are going to track your car. Either track something that you are never going to claim anything on, or be prepared to tell a little fib.

Merry Christmas

[Chris Lawson]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Telling that little fib is also called fraud.....not sure that is so wise with a hundred or so curious witnesses around. Its bad enough wrecking your car, you don't need a criminal conviction to go with it.

If you crash the car, it will hurt but suck it up and either fix it or tell the insurance company you sold it (to a wrecking yard )

Going to the track is like going to the casino. Only spend (with your right foot) what you can afford to lose and think of it as enterainment.

[Dave Barker]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

)

Going to the track is like going to the casino. Only spend (with your right foot) what you can afford to lose and think of it as enterainment.

Chris, well said. Frankly, I drive my car like I own it.

[axino03]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Telling that little fib is also called fraud.....not sure that is so wise with a hundred or so curious witnesses around. Its bad enough wrecking your car, you don't need a criminal conviction to go with it.

If you crash the car, it will hurt but suck it up and either fix it or tell the insurance company you sold it (to a wrecking yard )

Going to the track is like going to the casino. Only spend (with your right foot) what you can afford to lose and think of it as enterainment.

I agree with you completely. That’s why I have a weekend toy. But I am just saying you do see a lot of newer plated cars on the track.

[Caveman]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Well, Last year I tried to insure my sbc rx7. I told them all the mods (engine and trans, fuel cell) after a month of being able to carbon it up on the streets, I got a letter. CANCELED!!! "due to car being modified for purposes other then what the car was intended for." now i ask you whats the intended purpose of a 2 seat rx7?

a friend of mine had there insurance revoked for being seen at a K.O.T.H. event! no mods just on a track! mind you that is head to head but still

Now dose anybody know of a company that will insure a modified car?
the term Pro Street goes with street legal so who insures them?

[racecartech]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

get insurance brokers, quit dealing with insurance companies themselves. You do not save anything in the end.

Even life insurance can be a hassle. I have a policy now which covers me for racing at the amatuer level.

Your best option is to talk to brokers or agents who race or do track days.

Having this type of thread which can be easily seen by everyone is not your best avenue for going shopping though.

We really need a members only section for this kind of posting

[johnnyjohnny]

Re: Insurance...sorry to bring it up

Having this type of thread which can be easily seen by everyone is not your best avenue for going shopping though.

We really need a members only section for this kind of posting

Huh? I am a member, and it's my thread! Why are you worried about people being able to read the thread? If there is a real issue with insurance, I want to know about it, hence the reason for the thread. I refuse to ignore the elephant in the room and just leave it to chance.