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  • ONdriver
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by nissannx View Post
    Whoa, sounds like extra pips here!
    Not for this year, but next year, who knows!

    Leave a comment:


  • SmokeScreen
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Perry, wording is key. You want to change your shocks to the "optimum" OEM replacent shock. Just like there are street tires (motomaster all season) and street tires like the Hankook RS3. Every shock manufacturer is going to say their brand is best, only a couple of them are.

    Leave a comment:


  • nissannx
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by Chuck91GT View Post
    Perry, send me am email and tell me what you want to accomplish with your suspension. I just happen to know the guru of suspensions for Mustangs.
    Whoa, sounds like extra pips here!
    LOL , just kidding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck Atkins
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by ONdriver View Post
    So it sounds like the Bilstein B6's would be considered an improvement even though they may not be a "fully optimized" improvement and will have PIP's to go along with them.
    So since I am taking PIP's for slightly improved shocks I may as well go with a "fully optimized" improvement and reap the benefits, wallet issues aside!
    Thanks guys.
    Perry, send me am email and tell me what you want to accomplish with your suspension. I just happen to know the guru of suspensions for Mustangs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lloyd_
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Don't give up so easily! It doesn't matter what they actually do, it matters what you convince CCC of

    Leave a comment:


  • ONdriver
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    So it sounds like the Bilstein B6's would be considered an improvement even though they may not be a "fully optimized" improvement and will have PIP's to go along with them.
    So since I am taking PIP's for slightly improved shocks I may as well go with a "fully optimized" improvement and reap the benefits, wallet issues aside!
    Thanks guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cap'n Pete
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Put another way:

    If your original shocks are worn out, putting a brand new set of factory shocks on would be an "improvement", but not one in which you take PIPs, because they're still stock .

    If the Bilstein's (B6?) are considered an "improvement" over a BRAND NEW set of factory shocks, then they carry PIPs .

    The question here remains whether they're marketed as OEM replacement, or an "improvement" over OEM, AND whether you're looking to "improve" old worn-out shocks, or "improve" over a good working (but still OEM) set .

    Leave a comment:


  • ONdriver
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    I see what you're saying, otherwise we're going to end up with 1 PIP shocks, 2 PIP shocks, 5 PIP shocks, etc.
    We don't want to make things more complicated than they are!

    Leave a comment:


  • Carguy
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by ONdriver View Post
    Trying to avoid the PIP's if at all possible, just looking for an improved shock that will still be considered "OEM".
    The underlined word is key. If it is improved, then pips need to be claimed. The "degree" of performance improvement when it comes to shocks is not considered. If a competitor makes any suspension mods then it is assumed that it is optimized therefore full pips are claimed.

    This is in contrast to the tire rule that categorizes tires according to their degree of performance improvement potential - street vs. r-comp vs. uber.

    Leave a comment:


  • ONdriver
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Just want to be clear whether that model of shock will have PIP's associated with it. If it does, I will certainly claim them, just trying to avoid PIP's if at all possible! As mentioned, haven't decided one way or the other, just thinking ahead to next year.
    I think that shock would work well on my car, but if I'm going to incur PIP's using that one, I may as well go for a fully adjustable shock and gain the full benefit of the PIP's being levied.
    I'm not looking to rewrite the rules, just for a clear definition in this particular case.
    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • thgear
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by ONdriver View Post
    It's for my 2005 Mustang GT which still has the factory shocks as far as I know. Trying to avoid the PIP's if at all possible, just looking for an improved shock that will still be considered "OEM".


    so what you really want to do is improve your car without claiming modification points...


    our rule is generally pretty clear in its intent, "if you mod it, you claim pips for it", but there are certain things that, as you rightly suggest, "are hardly" an upgrade.

    but at the same time, where do we draw the line as rule makes and enforcers? In the case of dampeners, we are going to go by the manufacturers claims, if they say it's an OEM replacement shock, then it's an OEM replacement shock, if the manufacturer says its an upgrade, even for a street car or truck, then it is an upgrade.


    If you feel this rule needs to be changed (and i think a few people do), then send the CCC an email at the end of the season with proposals so that we can discuss it and present it at the year end banquet. The key thing to always keep in mind is possibility for abuse. Do we draw the line at adjustable shocks? Custom valved shocks? Monotube?

    Someone with the right equipment can rebuild and tune a shock to perfectly match a car for racing application, and it will not be adjustable. It will cost a lot of money, but it will be done. How do we police that?

    The problem is quite complex once you start digging into it.






    on a personal note, i think a Bilsten HD on an OEM mustang with OEM springs would actually work VERY well as the car has loads of suspension travel which a Bilsten HD is designed at controlling. (from my research into VW's from many years ago...)
    Last edited by thgear; 07-18-2011, 01:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ONdriver
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by thgear View Post
    which shock are they replacing? which car is this going in?
    It's for my 2005 Mustang GT which still has the factory shocks as far as I know. Trying to avoid the PIP's if at all possible, just looking for an improved shock that will still be considered "OEM".

    Leave a comment:


  • thgear
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by ONdriver View Post
    I think it's interesting they refer to the B6 as:
    "the ideal choice for most vehicles, including full-size sedans, SUVs and trucks"
    Doesn't sound high performance to me!
    which shock are they replacing? which car is this going in?

    Leave a comment:


  • ONdriver
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    I think it's interesting they refer to the B6 as:
    "the ideal choice for most vehicles, including full-size sedans, SUVs and trucks"
    Doesn't sound high performance to me!

    Leave a comment:


  • Lloyd_
    replied
    Re: PIP schedules

    Originally posted by racecartech View Post
    there are 2 conflicting reports from CCC members about Bilstien.

    Bill do you know the model of yours?

    Also, as anouther note, Bilstien are OE on several models of car and even light truck applications. not as a replacement but new
    Bilstien markets the "B4" line as similar to their OE shocks, eg, in their words, OE style aftermarket shocks.

    I think they only make the B8 ("Sport") for the C5, maybe the B6 ("HD").



    edit: This is why I bought a stock car that needs to take zero pips :P

    Leave a comment:

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