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  • streets or r-comps?

    If willing to take the -5 PIPs, are 100 rated r-comps a better choice than 140to 200 rated street tires? (eg. NT01 vs. NT05 or - or RA1's vs. RS3.s? etc.)
    I know - personal choice, depends on build of car & class desired, but I just wondered - any thoughts on this?
    Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
    OTA Director 2015
    ASN/FIA Committee 2015

  • #2
    Re: streets or r-comps?

    From a competitive stand-point, my personal opinion is that street tires are better, even if you run on NT05s or similar. If you can run on RS3's there is no comparison.
    Andy
    Mobil 1 Time Attack - #96

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    • #3
      Re: streets or r-comps?

      I've been wondering this myself.... Interested to hear opinions

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: streets or r-comps?

        In my case it made the difference between classes, so why wouldn't I go with street tires?
        CASC Autoslalom Director
        2019 Honda Civic Si #64
        www.twinlakesmc.org

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        • #5
          Re: streets or r-comps?

          I believe that the latest street tires have proven to have great performance vs. r-comps. However the decision to use streets over r-comps or ubers can be tough to make without actually trying them.

          Like everything else in automotive performance it's a question of compromise. There are so many factors to consider when making a choice. Some street tires wear prematurely (or chunk) when they put though heat cycles on the track while r-comps that were meant to handle higher temparatures or heat cycles will perform relatively better despite the +/-5 pip difference. Off the top of my head camber, tire pressure, tread design, rubber compound, curb weight, corner weighting, drive config (FWD, RWD,AWD), driving style and more all contribute in some way to heat build-up in the tires while on the track.

          I remember Dr. Dave telling me back in the 2010 season he put NT05's on his Camaro (heavy car, RWD, some camber, proper tire pressures, corner weighted?). He found the performance dropped off quickly as the tires would heat up. He noticed that the NT05's actually made him slower by more than 1 second in the lower class (or at least uncompetitive compared to others). He felt he'd be more competitive in the next class up with r-comps and got much better results in the 2011 season after making the switch.

          Those NT05's in a smaller size may perform really well on my CRX dropping it to T1 (light car, FWD, some camber, proper tire pressures, corner weighted). But there's no way of knowing that for sure unless I find someone who's had success with those tires and has a similar setup and driving style/capabilities to mine.

          Will did a back-to-back test of r-comps vs streets back in 2010 at MIR with his twin-charged Civic. One interesting result of his test is that the street tires he used had less rolling resistance than his r-comps making his car somewhat faster on the back straight. Conversely the street tires had less cornering grip than the r-comps (perhahps not a big issue with his particular car at MIR). His car is light and in combination with the brand of street tires he was using perhaps excessive heat in the tires may not have been an issue - on that day, on that track, under those conditions, etc.

          What compromises would you make for an entire season? Or for a single track? How much do you want to spend on tires? Got a testing budget? Decisions, decisions...

          So much to keep our minds boggled in the off-season - I love this sport!
          CarGuy - Subaru BRZ #57
          sigpic
          Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting. Steve McQueen

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          • #6
            Re: streets or r-comps?

            good points Pierre! i too couldnt miss the fact that Dave won his class on r-comps, against some stiff competition on rs3, etc. my experience level is still quite limited, but what i have noticed is that my street tires (NT05s) last way longer than their sister r-comps (NT555RIIs). i did get faster times on the latter, but unsure if it were the tires, or my driving skill improving by the latter part of the season. I guess the question (for me) would be:
            1) can i drive the car sufficiently faster to not compromise my scores due to higher class PAX. And:
            2) if i can achieve better times with more skill, where will this delta give me the most bang points wise? (note: as they say, it is more difficult to drive a fast car faster, or something to this effect )
            3) can i afford to (at least potentially) spend more $ on r-comps
            Decisions...decisions!!! Bill
            sigpic
            Supporting member of several
            grassroot Clubs

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            • #7
              Re: streets or r-comps?

              Originally posted by Alloy GT View Post
              spend more $ on r-comps
              Decisions...decisions!!! Bill
              Not necessarily, has anyone else noticed that the RS3's are getting more expensive! Word must be spreading!
              #25 summer & winter

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              • #8
                Re: streets or r-comps?

                Kelly, I am not alone in finding that at least some streets fall off in performance with heat, where R comps generally get better (although they too can certainly be overheated). Your car is pretty heavy so you might not get the same response as Will and Pierre.

                Not only was I sig faster with R comps this year (Toyo RA-1s, NOT 888s) but they were much more fun to drive. I spun more than a few times on my "streets" in 2010 but kept the car on the track the whole time in 2011. I would love to have tried RS3s but was too cheap to buy new 18 x 10" rims and Hankook doesn't make 17s big enough for my car. I gather some others have found they overheat pretty quickly as well. BTW due to the success of RS3s, they aren't as cheap as they used to be.

                That being said, you need to be able to get R comps to the track and change them there.

                Not sure what I will be using in 2012
                Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

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                • #9
                  Re: streets or r-comps?

                  Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
                  That being said, you need to be able to get R comps to the track and change them there.
                  Mustangs hold 4 tires in the back quite easily. In fact, I bet with 4 tires in the back you could still fit in a rather large hockey bag if needed!
                  Last edited by ONdriver; 12-29-2011, 08:32 PM.
                  #25 summer & winter

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                  • #10
                    Re: streets or r-comps?

                    Ya, I do have to consider the weight of the car as well - makes sense, some tires likely better on heavier cars. As for changing tires at the track, no worries there, I don't mind. Perry's right, amazing what fits in the back of a Mustang when needed! (guess I could pull a small trailer?) That said, I'm leaning to R-comps right now. Might as well have track tires, already bought the rims Still reading reviews and finding out what others have to say....hmmm, NT01's? RA1's? All the opinions & advice is quite helpful & appreciated.
                    Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
                    OTA Director 2015
                    ASN/FIA Committee 2015

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                    • #11
                      Re: streets or r-comps?

                      If you can get RA1's in your size, go for it. You will enjoy them. If not, then I'd vote for NT01's next (arguably, they're sort of "the same tire" as RA1's). R888's would be my last choice, based NOT on my own experience with them, but pretty much everybody else who ran them on heavy-ish, higher HP, RWD cars . Bill also mentioned the Nitto 555RII's ... they're not bad as well, although I think they're just a shade under the RA1's/NT01's, but not by much. Fewer available sizes though, so you may not find them for your car?

                      Hmm, another (possibly pricier) option, Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I think they're still classed as R-comp, not Premium R? They should work well too.

                      At the end of the day, it really depends on what YOU want? Do you want to shoot for best-in-class, and/or top overall? Or just to go out, go as quick as YOU can (comfortably) and have FUN?? If you just want to have fun, slap some STICKY rubber on the car and see how quick you can go. From personal experience, there's really nothing more frustrating than having a bunch of HP in a respectable handling car that you can't actually use because you're constantly lighting the tires up and/or sliding all over the place. Put sticky rubber on and PUSH THE CAR to its (your) limits, and you'll probably enjoy the improved lap times you see (whether they're class-leading or not ).

                      That's my $.02. Hence my decision to run Hoosiers (on the Z06, and my previous Camaros). Sure, I likely won't run away with the series (in points - never have) but I'm having fun seeing what the car can do .
                      OMSC
                      Current: 2011 Corvette Z06
                      Previous: '06 Z06, '10 Corvette, '93 & '02 Camaro Z28's

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                      • #12
                        Re: streets or r-comps?

                        Originally posted by ONdriver View Post
                        Not necessarily, has anyone else noticed that the RS3's are getting more expensive! Word must be spreading!
                        225 45 15's are within 10 dollars for a whole set at discount tires direct as they were a year ago!

                        Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
                        Kelly, I am not alone in finding that at least some streets fall off in performance with heat, where R comps generally get better (although they too can certainly be overheated). Your car is pretty heavy so you might not get the same response as Will and Pierre.

                        Not only was I sig faster with R comps this year (Toyo RA-1s, NOT 888s) but they were much more fun to drive. I spun more than a few times on my "streets" in 2010 but kept the car on the track the whole time in 2011. I would love to have tried RS3s but was too cheap to buy new 18 x 10" rims and Hankook doesn't make 17s big enough for my car. I gather some others have found they overheat pretty quickly as well. BTW due to the success of RS3s, they aren't as cheap as they used to be.

                        That being said, you need to be able to get R comps to the track and change them there.

                        Not sure what I will be using in 2012

                        I know some of the streets can overheat pretty quickly but I have found the opposite with the rs3's. I don't know if it isbecause my car isn't as heavy as some of the other cars that are making them to overheat, but usually I would think that with a moderately high horsepower fwd car it would be easy to overheat the tires.

                        I could stay out for 5 or 6 laps going 11/10ths the whole time and would come off the track and the tire temps would be wonderful! Pressures would go quite high but temps would stay right where they needed to be.

                        Maybe the heavy rwd cars are affected differently
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Re: streets or r-comps?

                          Originally posted by Cap'n Pete View Post
                          If you can get RA1's in your size, go for it. You will enjoy them. If not, then I'd vote for NT01's next (arguably, they're sort of "the same tire" as RA1's). R888's would be my last choice, based NOT on my own experience with them, but pretty much everybody else who ran them on heavy-ish, higher HP, RWD cars . Bill also mentioned the Nitto 555RII's ... they're not bad as well, although I think they're just a shade under the RA1's/NT01's, but not by much. Fewer available sizes though, so you may not find them for your car?

                          Hmm, another (possibly pricier) option, Michelin Pilot Sport Cups. I think they're still classed as R-comp, not Premium R? They should work well too.

                          At the end of the day, it really depends on what YOU want? Do you want to shoot for best-in-class, and/or top overall? Or just to go out, go as quick as YOU can (comfortably) and have FUN?? If you just want to have fun, slap some STICKY rubber on the car and see how quick you can go. From personal experience, there's really nothing more frustrating than having a bunch of HP in a respectable handling car that you can't actually use because you're constantly lighting the tires up and/or sliding all over the place. Put sticky rubber on and PUSH THE CAR to its (your) limits, and you'll probably enjoy the improved lap times you see (whether they're class-leading or not ).

                          That's my $.02. Hence my decision to run Hoosiers (on the Z06, and my previous Camaros). Sure, I likely won't run away with the series (in points - never have) but I'm having fun seeing what the car can do .
                          As a newbie to time attack he'll learn way more about what the car can and cannot do on streets then he will on hoosiers!
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Re: streets or r-comps?

                            Originally posted by KLZEMX6 View Post
                            225 45 15's are within 10 dollars for a whole set at discount tires direct as they were a year ago!
                            That's probably because they don't sell many 15's
                            I know the 18's I was looking at last year are up about $35 each, if I remember correctly.
                            #25 summer & winter

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                            • #15
                              Re: streets or r-comps?

                              I run streets for a bunch of reasons, but one reason (not mentioned yet) is that I have run fairly OEM cars that were designed by the manufacturer to deal with grip levels from the OEM tire.

                              Thus, to keep wear and tear and breakage of stuff down I will gladly use streets which are both competitive and closest to the grip level of the car's spec tire.
                              Last edited by Lloyd_; 12-29-2011, 09:20 PM.
                              03 Z06 #72
                              15 Prius V

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