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  • Brakes upgrade

    I'm researching brakes and considering options. I've always used Hawk or Carbotech pads and medium grade rotors with stock calipers.

    Now looking at 2 piece rotors for less weight/rotating mass and better heat management.

    Anyone had experience with Wilwood?

    Checked other forums, time to check our own!

    Thanks.
    Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
    OTA Director 2015
    ASN/FIA Committee 2015

  • #2
    Re: Brakes upgrade

    We used Wilwood 4 piston calipers on the 91 Stang. Worked great! I've read that the 6 piston ones are very good. Have you considered the stock Brembos that come with the upgraded 5.0 package? Used with Hawk pads they are very good as well but might be more expensive.

    Originally posted by 10gt61 View Post
    I'm researching brakes and considering options. I've always used Hawk or Carbotech pads and medium grade rotors with stock calipers.

    Now looking at 2 piece rotors for less weight/rotating mass and better heat management.

    Anyone had experience with Wilwood?

    Checked other forums, time to check our own!

    Thanks.
    Chuck Atkins

    Ontario 1500 Motorsport Adventure Organizer
    Former CASC-OR Ontario Time Attack Director
    Former ASN Canada FIA SoloSport Ontario Rep

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Brakes upgrade

      Originally posted by OTA Director View Post
      Have you considered the stock Brembos that come with the upgraded 5.0 package?
      Yes, I am considering Brembo as well.
      They are 14" rotors. My stock rotors are 12" and the Wilwoods are available in 13".
      I don't want to upset the brake bias too much, so was thinking the 13" might be the way to go?
      Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
      OTA Director 2015
      ASN/FIA Committee 2015

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Brakes upgrade

        Bigger diameter won't automatically throw off the bias, just like similar diameter won't automatically keep the bias good. Caliper choice plays as big (or bigger) part in that. Any kits designed to be used with stock rear brakes from a reputable company should be a good option.

        On my car, the best performance/dollar option seems to be a kit made by Essex, using AP parts. It's still about $2400 cdn for fronts, but doesn't require huge wheels for clearance and is designed to work with the stock master cylinder and rear brakes.

        As a bonus, you might actually find the two piece rotors are cheaper in the long run since you can replace just the rings vs the whole rotor.

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        • #5
          Re: Brakes upgrade

          Kelly,

          What issue are you trying to solve?
          Greg.

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          • #6
            Re: Brakes upgrade

            Originally posted by wparsons View Post
            Caliper choice plays as big (or bigger) part in that. Any kits designed to be used with stock rear brakes from a reputable company should be a good option.
            Good to know. It's what I was hoping. Do want to keep stock rear brakes. Just replaced OEM rear calipers, rotors and Hawk pads out back. So it's just the fronts I'm upgrading.
            Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
            OTA Director 2015
            ASN/FIA Committee 2015

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Brakes upgrade

              Originally posted by Greg Campbell View Post
              Kelly,

              What issue are you trying to solve?
              Greg, my brakes have almost always felt very good with the set up I have used, until....
              Two track days at Watkins Glen. Got a little soft near end of day two. (mind you, the pads did wear away quickly there)
              Just looking for improved braking capabilities overall if I can get it, as well as shedding a little weight.
              Trying to set the car up as best as it can be within my class and within the rules.
              I left a little on the table in that area last season.
              Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
              OTA Director 2015
              ASN/FIA Committee 2015

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Brakes upgrade

                What are you using for fluid, Kelly?
                Time-Attack #29
                1990 Toyota Celica GT-S

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Brakes upgrade

                  Originally posted by 10gt61 View Post
                  Greg, my brakes have almost always felt very good with the set up I have used, until....
                  Two track days at Watkins Glen. Got a little soft near end of day two. (mind you, the pads did wear away quickly there)
                  Just looking for improved braking capabilities overall if I can get it, as well as shedding a little weight.
                  Trying to set the car up as best as it can be within my class and within the rules.
                  I left a little on the table in that area last season.
                  For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents.

                  You probably won't feel the benefit of the reduced unsprung weight, the mustang is quite heavy and a couple of pounds from the front won't make a difference. And before someone else chimes in with a 'unsprung weight is the most critical and reducing mass from the wheels helps acceleration and braking performance' argument, most BBKs are just that 'bigger'. A larger diameter rotor will have a greater moment of inertia so unless you are going with carbon rotors the reduction in mass will not offset the increased diameter.

                  In terms of overall braking 'power' stock brakes can lock the wheels and are therefore powerful enough for the job. The issue is maintaining that power throughout the competition. However given we are not wheel to wheel racing for 30+ laps, as long as you have adequate pads and fluid you are not going to see the additional heat management benefits from upgrading. While I have not driven there, I understand that the Glen is pretty demanding on brakes.

                  The reason I asked what 'issue' you were trying to solve is that last year I did get a BBK (the Essex kit that was mentioned) but I was not unsatisfied with the stock set up in terms of power, resistance to fade, or consumables. I got it because the vette calipers are flexy which causes piston knock back leading to an inconsistent pedal feel from corner to corner. Not fun. Overall with the new set up (as racecar fabulous as it is) I do not have any more power or fade resistance, and it was awfully expensive ($3K). Plus my consumables costs are higher due to the larger pad and non-universal rotors.

                  Ultimately if you 'want it' get it, but if you are looking to optimize within the class there may be better avenues (cage and race weight?).
                  Greg.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Brakes upgrade

                    If you are running a newer Mustang (e.g. Fox Body or newer) there are lots of guys running American Iron Extreme with these cars. I would assume many of those guys have tried all sorts of brake combinations from A to Z.

                    I assume you know about American Iron Extreme (AIX), if not check out the AIX stuff on the NASA forum, I have found the guys there to be very open and helpful when it comes to their setups.
                    sigpic
                    No one is interested in all the things you didn't do !

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                    • #11
                      Re: Brakes upgrade

                      Originally posted by k.beaty View Post
                      What are you using for fluid, Kelly?
                      Motul 600.
                      I don't want to give the wrong impression.
                      I like my brakes. Just thinking they could be even better!
                      Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
                      OTA Director 2015
                      ASN/FIA Committee 2015

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                      • #12
                        Re: Brakes upgrade

                        http://www.buyfordracingfromdpm.com/...GRADE-KIT.html
                        Andy
                        Mobil 1 Time Attack - #96

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                        • #13
                          Re: Brakes upgrade

                          Originally posted by 10gt61 View Post
                          Motul 600.
                          I don't want to give the wrong impression.
                          I like my brakes. Just thinking they could be even better!
                          I've boiled that a few times...the Motul 660 is very nice though!

                          I think you could achieve what you're looking for just going to a more aggressive bad. My integra weighed in a 2750 with me in it this season did 175kmh at ddt(with the kink in the straight) 209 at tmp and 251 at MIR and I'm still using stock calipers with carbotech xp20's in the front and I have absolutely no issues. Now I'm sure your mustang is much heavier but my car also only uses an 11" rotor.

                          If you give some higher temp fluid a try with some more aggressive pads I think you'll find yourself very happy and you'll have a couple grand left over to optimize other areas of the car!
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Re: Brakes upgrade

                            Originally posted by KLZEMX6 View Post

                            If you give some higher temp fluid a try with some more aggressive pads I think you'll find yourself very happy and you'll have a couple grand left over to optimize other areas of the car!
                            Bingo. You could also lighten the car up a bit, that helps. Anyone mention venting air at the rotors, maybe your mustang has that?
                            2010 to 2013 OTA competitor with a Honda, Ford, and a BMW.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Brakes upgrade

                              Thanks for the input/advice all! Appreciate it.
                              Yes, I am lightening where I can and yes I do have brake cooling ducts.
                              Have used XP10 pads before. Great pads. Maybe XP20's next....
                              Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
                              OTA Director 2015
                              ASN/FIA Committee 2015

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