Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by GT42RR View Post

    Im not sure if you aware but now there is more than one other series in Ontario. CSCS is the one you are thinking about. The new series is being super aggressive with marketing and vendors to bring more people through the gate. You should have a look and see what they have to offer.


    Yes no three series will be the same nor will you be able to keep everyone happy. I don't know why you feel like you are going to "steal" people from another series. You are just giving people that love to race more weekends available to have FUN!! If the rules are similar it makes the change over EASY!
    I specifically mentioned that we are NOT trying to steal competitors from other series. CSCS runs a very different rule set than we do which appeals to some and not to others. I was not aware of a third time attack series so can't comment on their rules etc.

    The main purpose of the RTC rules is NOT to mimic other series but to make it easier for people to get involved who may not have been involved before. As you are aware, the OTA rule book is moderately extensive and the competitors are VERY competitive (look at the discussions that go on about making a 1-2 PIP change to the rules which works out to 0.2 to 0.4 seconds expected change per lap).

    What we have found is that many folks don't even know they can drive their car on a race track and a number are afraid of wrecking their car. Although OTA provides excellent instruction, both in the schools and at the events, some find the competitive nature of OTA too much.

    There have been a few "barriers to entry" to quote Joe T, in OTA which include the rule book with its car classification and PIP schedule, the cost of the events and the cost of the class C licence. The cost of events is actually less this year than last year (you would have great difficulty matching the Open house price for lapping at MIR on a weekend day) and the licencing cost is being picked up by OTA and the parent organization, CASC. Running in RTC means no PIP schedule required either. (Not even any limits on tire size like Global Time attack has).

    The OTA PIP schedule assumes that any modification done to a car is effective to the best of its ability. As we all know, not all mods are equal and my revalved non adjustable Bilstein shocks that I pay 2 PIPs for are not going to perform like 3 way adjustable JRZ shocks or Penskes which cost way more money but the same 2 PIPs. RTC classes give drivers the chance to run with whatever mods they want without having to worry that they didn't "optimise" their choice of modification.

    So the real purpose of RTC classes is to make it easier for people to learn to drive fast in a safe environment with some low key competition. .It is not to try and mimic the rule sets of other series. It is supposed to be fun and not too many of our competitors are looking for James Hinchcliff's contract anyway. For the real keeners with highly developed fast cars we still have Mod 1 or RTC Unlimited, take your choice.

    Another small point is that OTA is not for profit (just ask the treasurer) and is run by volunteers. We just like to keep enough money in the till to pay for track rentals and hopefully decrease the cost of entry for everyone.
    Last edited by Dave Barker; 03-24-2016, 12:11 PM.
    Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

      Does one have to opt-in to be scored in this class or can one choose not to participate if one is already classed with a PIP schedule?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

        Just wanted to let everyone know what the concept behind the Raw Time Challenge is.

        For years competitors have not had the option of running without a PIP schedule, so the committee has decided to make it easier for those people who do not want their cars classified into the many categories we established.

        So now you have a choice, run Ontario Time Attack OR run the sub-series known as Raw Time Challenge. While I will leave it to the RTC committee headed up by Dave B. to decide the race categories for RTC, please recognize we are doing our best to make this work.

        We also think this is a good way to attract people who are not familiar with the index (or PIP) schedule to get closer with OTA. We are working on having RTC participants get a score so they can be attracted to the Time Attack system if they choose to do so.

        Please help us by giving some positive comments and suggestions on how to make RTC grow.

        For those participating in the Time Attack Events, you're already sold on the merits of keeping with our indexing system so be assured that will still be in play for those who compete.

        BOTTOM LINE: More ways to have FUN at the track!
        Last edited by Time Attack Director; 03-24-2016, 01:57 PM.
        CASC-OR Time Attack Director

        sigpic

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

          Originally posted by chmod755 View Post
          As a new competitor (2015 was the first time I've EVER competed), I like the idea that I can get my feet wet but I feel like I'm at a disadvantage because the car I'm starting with is a modded Subaru Impreza STI.

          I started as just a regular car guy who bought a Subaru and got the modding bug. I upgraded my turbo, a couple of suspension parts, and a tune. The idea was to drive on a race track but as I did this more often, I decided it would be great to give time attack a try.

          But since I'm starting with this car, and this is all I have (other than my wife's car which I won't use!), I've had to start in SGT2 last year. This year, I'm in SGT2 again and I'll have to compete against least season's champ! If I were to enter the RTC classes, I'll have to start in RTC Unlimited which I'm definitely not optimized for!

          I know the idea of placing cars in classes is to somewhat put the cars on a similar footing but I feel like lower powered cars have more of an advantage in this series for beginners.

          Maybe I should have gotten a Miata!
          Why would you be in RTC unlimited? Classes are by OEM hp/weight, not your current power level/weight. Add a turbo/supercharger to an NA car, you're moved up one class.

          The idea behind these classes were for people just like you Moses... people that started modding without knowing classing rules and just want to have fun at the track.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

            OEM weight: 3344 lbs
            OEM power: 293

            11.4 lb/hp

            So if the car were stock, then would it be in RTC 1 (or 2)?

            Since my turbo isn't stock, wouldn't that be considered an upgrade and place me in the next highest class: RTC Unlimited (or RTC 1)?
            Moses W.
            OTA #9 SGT2 - 2007 White Subaru Impreza STI

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

              My understanding is that you can do what you like with engine/turbo/supercharger as long as the car came equiped with one from factory. The only thing that will move you up a class is tire choice...if you run UTQG of 140 or higher you will still be in RTC 2 (assuming the previous calculation of 11.4 is correct) regardless of the changes you make to the engine/turbo or suspension.

              Someone correct me if I'm wrong...PLEASE before I finish the car!!!!
              Last edited by 1qwkmini; 03-24-2016, 04:09 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                Please see above post, it explains the classing confusion.

                When Im home from work Ill explain my ideas for the RTC classing.
                Dov Aronoff
                OTA Social Media Rep
                SPDA Ontario Time Attack Rep

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                  Originally posted by chmod755 View Post
                  OEM weight: 3344 lbs
                  OEM power: 293

                  11.4 lb/hp

                  So if the car were stock, then would it be in RTC 1 (or 2)?

                  Since my turbo isn't stock, wouldn't that be considered an upgrade and place me in the next highest class: RTC Unlimited (or RTC 1)?
                  From what the 1st post says I think you would be RTC2 since 11.4 is within the 11 to 15 lbs/hp range.
                  "RTC2: Power to weight ratio of greater than 11 to 15 lbs/hp."

                  I'm assuming your car came turbocharged from the factory and you changed the turbo? I don't think that would affect your RTC classing since the rules (as I read them) state adding FI onto a car that was NA moves you up one RTC class, not simply modifying an already FI'd car.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                    Guys, the rules are pretty clear. Adding an aftermarket forced induction system whether it is to an NA or forced induction car moves you up a class.

                    OTOH, modifying an OEM turbo or supercharger is totally legit. If you want to raise boost pressure or install a smaller supercharger pulley, be my guest. If you want to add a honkin" big after market turbo, that will move you up a class.

                    Pretty simple isn't it?
                    Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                      Thanks for clearing that up Dave.

                      I think it's the "adding" that was confusing the situation.

                      What are the restrictions on engine mods..."engine mods are allowed with a few restrictions."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                        Hey Guys,
                        After having a very lengthy conversation with my SPDA Time Attack ambassador Im just going to give you the strait goods without the sugar coating.

                        As you must know CSCS has introduced a new tire rule that has some of the field looking for a new place to race. OTA is having a massive struggle getting enough entry to make the series viable. Introducing a few new classes to mimic ones of CSCS, GTA, Redline and others would make OTA a EASY step for those who don't want to buy in to the Pirelli program.

                        This could be a very EASY step to have entry jump up 20-25 cars without re writing the typical OTA pip program. Just imagine 60+ cars at MIR instead of 34 (2015). I mean if you can't get 60 people out to MIR GP track at $300 for the day, something is a miss! Adding these cars could be the difference in this make or break year for OTA.

                        Bringing new people will bring new media outlets and possible new sponsorship to the series. The current sponsors have noticed they are keeping the same 30-40 guys racing, and the lack of media coverage has them thinking. Lets add a bunch of new guys with the same passion of motorsports. This is not a us vs. them, this is we want somewhere to run our cars and have some fun!!

                        I will let you know we have 3 very competitive customer cars looking for a series to race in this year. For me Im ok with just going to lapping days with my car, I have nothing to prove I just want to have fun.

                        Seems like a no brainer to me! Nothing really to lose just a good opportunity to capitalize on the situation and keep OTA chugging along.
                        Dov Aronoff
                        OTA Social Media Rep
                        SPDA Ontario Time Attack Rep

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                          My 2 cents worth that I shared with JP.
                          I am overly excited about the RTC! This makes a great addition to OTA and gives the true speed enthusiast an opportunity to compete outright yet in the OTA safety nets.
                          I will definitely register for this especially now that there no Championship Shootout any longer! I can foresee OTA changing to this format in a year or two as it will attract a huge following.
                          The engine swap rules, the freedom of choosing engine, suspension and body mods, and the tire rules are perfectly simple.
                          Congratulations to you and the entire committee for bringing this along! It will resurrect OTA back into the glory days and maybe we will have all the ex-HADA clan including DaveP, Hanif P, Taylor B, and all the others back for this exciting event and show us what they have!!
                          Mohamed H

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                            Thanks MO!

                            Does this mean you're going to steal Dave B.'s corvette engine and put it in the lil civic?

                            I think our 2016 theme should be ..

                            To PIP or not to PIP, Time Attack VS. RTC, YOUR CHOICE!

                            So please spread the word to new competitors you know and help us make the series grow!

                            Sorry for the interruption, please add more comments about RTC!
                            Last edited by Time Attack Director; 03-25-2016, 08:56 AM.
                            CASC-OR Time Attack Director

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                              OTA has always had issues with promotion as our budget is basically non existent. Track rental fees have increased and we want to continue to provide the high quality product that we do and that leaves diddly squat for promotion.That is why we count on a lot of you and word of mouth. IMO, we clearly have the best time attack series in the country on the best tracks with the best organization but not enough people know about us.The other series promote like crazy, enough to be able to charge a $20 gate fee to spectators AND competitors. They are quite clearly for profit while we are not. Some good things about that and some bad things.

                              OTOH, to say we are struggling would not be accurate. The low entry event that GT42RR mentions was not MIR but Calabogie (that for numerous reasons that I would not discuss here). In actual fact most of the competition events last year made money and entries were adequate. Obviously we would like to increase our numbers but the projected budget for this year already shows a profit due to numerous other changes we have made to the series with NO increase in entry AND a decrease in entry fees!! GT42RR, your SPDA ambassador is not accurate to imply we are on the ropes.

                              We would be happy to have competitors from other series come to ours (I would have thought RTC Unlimited or even RTC1 classes would work for that) but the real growth needs to come from beginners not seasoned competitors. That is why OTA has always offered schools and instruction.

                              Every year in every series there are some competitors that don't return for numerous reasons. Seasoned competitors already know about OTA vs CSCS and the pros and cons of each series whereas most newbies do not. This is where the real growth can come from.

                              Obviously those of us with less modified cars will continue to enjoy the PAX scoring system (and even more so this year with iPAX). This year by adding RTC classes, people can go pretty wild with their mods without the fear that they will be forced to run against an OEM supercar or similar. And those who have super prepped cars can run in RTC Unlimited or Mod 1 on fast race tracks like SMP Pro or MIR.

                              Frankly, I think the addition of RTC classes with the rules as written is a real addition to our series and will widen the appeal both for new folks and those with highly prepped cars.

                              One thing I should mention here is that to maintain the quality of the OTA experience, we will be limiting the numbers of entrants to each event (including the lapping at MIR). Although the money for the series would be great if we had 100 entrants for each, the experience for those 100 would definitely not be as good as a more routine OTA event (ask others about Calabogie lapping). Therefore, given the good prices at the Open House, I suggest folks make their best effort to be at JRP on Sat April 2 for the opening sign up for OTA, including PAX and RTC classes.
                              Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                                Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
                                GT42RR, your SPDA ambassador is not accurate to imply we are on the ropes.
                                Exactly. "Rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated" - Mark Twain.

                                OTA is in good shape. Early panicking that occurred amongst some people last year turned out to be unwarranted. We ended the season much like we did many seasons before. And many have worked very hard to improve the series even further going forward. It is much appreciated by many.
                                Kelly B. GT Class Competitor 2011 - 2014
                                OTA Director 2015
                                ASN/FIA Committee 2015

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X