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New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

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  • #46
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by 1qwkmini View Post
    NO THANKS!!! If those are the rules you will lose one new competitor!!!
    As soon as you allow engine swaps/turbos etc you get into very high HP cars, a lot of dollars and unreliable engines. At least in the proposed rules you work with powertrain given and you can simply work on suspension/lightening and aero if you like.

    If I wanted those rules I would go to CSCS.

    Really like the simple nature of the proposed RTC classes.
    The original rules allowed swaps and turbo/supercharger kits as well... the original rules were actually more relaxed because it didn't require the engine to be available in the chassis. You could be up against an LS3 miata by the original rules, with the new proposal it would be something like a B16 swapped EG civic or ITR swapped Integra LS.

    The only classes that would allow an engine not originally available in the chassis is the unlimited class, which was unlimited by the original proposal as well.

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    • #47
      Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

      I think the rules make sense, I know my car is optimized for GT2 this year; otherwise I would be running the lowest level of RTC with hankook RS3's
      (Next year I may run RTC)

      Last year my car competed in GT3 on non-optimized suspension, every time I went to the track (for a track day) I went faster. It had nothing to do with my car getting modded, it was all about the seat time I gained!

      Corey drove my non-optimized car at TMP and destroyed the GT3 field, and went 1.9 seconds faster than me, at the same time I have gone faster than some of the guys in higher classes... (so what) The whole point of this series is to go out and have some fun!

      For me I continued to spend money on my car over the winter, and will be running GT2 this year.. Everyone should be trying to go faster every season, I know for me I will not be satisfied running the same lap times every year. And I sure as heck don't want to stay in the same class every year so I can win a little trophy!

      Who cares whether you run OTA, RTC or if we have competitors crossing over to run a different series... We should be welcoming anyone to our series and helping them understand their options. At least it's a step in the right direction.

      Just shut up and drive and have some fun, meet new people; help them out and smile inside your helmet like we should be doing.

      Looking forward to seeing everyone next Saturday at JRP!

      (My cheque is already filled out)

      Cheers
      Grant

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

        Let me make this clear...I LIKE THE NEW RTC AS PROPOSED!!!!

        It's my choice to swap engines/supercharger etc and what RTC class I ultimately run in. But it still allows me to "run what you brung" and not worry about PIPS.
        If the car is super fast in RTC3 then I can simply change tires and move to RTC2....I like the simplicity of it. I'm not looking to compete unfairly, I just want a class where the car has a chance of being in the hunt....not sure if that can happen if my car is in the same class as Mike's 350Z.

        The other proposal means that my car with the interior stripped (I started building it as a lapping day car) would automatically start in something like superstreet or unlimited...against cars that HAVE engine swaps and 5-600HP.

        I like my car the way it is...if I were starting the build again, I would build it with the rule book/PIP schedule in hand...much like Corey's old BMW.
        RTC allows me to run in RTC3 or RTC2 (depending on tires) and it should be fairly competative....unlike the other proposal which would require me to start the build over or add 2-300HP (and we all know that is cheap!!!).

        Basically my Mini is like Corey's old BMW with a more extensive cage, cheaper shocks and more engine than stock. How would Corey's car have done if it was classed with the same BMW with unlimited engine/HP simply because he had removed his interior?????

        I REPEAT I LIKE THE NEW RULES AS WRITTEN!!!!

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

          Folks, remember that the RTC rules as suggested allow engine swaps with no restrictions BUT you have to use the hp from the stock new engine to figure out your wgt/hp.

          Means an LS1 motor in a Miata is not going to run in the same class as a Mazda motor in a Miata.

          Factory Miatas generally work out to RTC 3 with wgt/hp of 15/1 or higher

          Put a crappy LS1 motor in the car at stock 300 hp in a 2400 lb car and you are down to wgt/hp of 8/1 or RTC1 class before you improve the motor. Do some work and that LS1 can make a lot more power. OTOH lots of cars in RTC1 have higher wgt/hp than 8 to start with.
          Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

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          • #50
            Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

            These RTC rules/classes are interesting.

            As someone that manly does open lapping and autoslalom, you have my attention. I will definitely keep my eye on it and possibly come out for an event or two.

            The PIP system was a bit too much for me to jump into the OTA series. With my engine swap, I would need to submit a dyno results. Since the closes awd dyno is 3 hrs away, its something that is low on my priority since I'm still sorting out other aspects of the car.

            With the OEM weight/power ratio on the OP, my subaru legacy with an ej207 running RE71R would fall under RTC2. Under Autoslalom classes, I'm thrown into Street Mod due to the engine swap. Either way my car is not competitive in any classes its usually put into.

            I think the goal of RTC is to bring more competitors to the events, whether they are new to time attack or from another series.
            Jing
            #78 WOSCA
            02 Subaru Legacy - SM

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

              Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
              Folks, remember that the RTC rules as suggested allow engine swaps with no restrictions BUT you have to use the hp from the stock new engine to figure out your wgt/hp.

              Means an LS1 motor in a Miata is not going to run in the same class as a Mazda motor in a Miata.

              Factory Miatas generally work out to RTC 3 with wgt/hp of 15/1 or higher

              Put a crappy LS1 motor in the car at stock 300 hp in a 2400 lb car and you are down to wgt/hp of 8/1 or RTC1 class before you improve the motor. Do some work and that LS1 can make a lot more power. OTOH lots of cars in RTC1 have higher wgt/hp than 8 to start with.
              Hey Dave, just a quick question, so does it mean my LS3 Miata automatically goes into the Unlimited category based on its power to weight ratio, despite having very good street manner? i.e. it still uses street rubber, non-optimized wheel and tire width, non-optimized damper / springs, etc.
              Jonathan Liu
              #60 BMW E46 M3

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                Originally posted by xyz999 View Post
                Hey Dave, just a quick question, so does it mean my LS3 Miata automatically goes into the Unlimited category based on its power to weight ratio, despite having very good street manner? i.e. it still uses street rubber, non-optimized wheel and tire width, non-optimized damper / springs, etc.
                If the power to weight ratio puts it there, yes. No different than a 100% stock car that has a very high power to weight ratio.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                  Originally posted by wparsons View Post
                  If the power to weight ratio puts it there, yes. No different than a 100% stock car that has a very high power to weight ratio.
                  OK I figured as much. Thanks for the note Will.
                  Jonathan Liu
                  #60 BMW E46 M3

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                    >>GT42RR doesn't like the proposed rules for RTC and some of you do. Certainly would like to hear from more of you<<

                    I am new to OTA, I have never competed, I would like to compete though but have struggled to both understand the rules and determine if/where my car(s) would fit.

                    The new RTC classes are a positive step in my humble/uneducated opinion towards hopefully making things simpler and attracting more participants (although I don't yet understand why RTC Open is not truly "Unlimited" by not allowing full blown, tube chassis, race cars).

                    >>Open House is just a week away<<

                    I'm planning to drop by, looking forward to it.
                    sigpic
                    No one is interested in all the things you didn't do !

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                      That's what the OPEN MOD class is for...have at it with a full race car...He!! bring out a Radical ( ok maybe not ).

                      I think RTC is meant to be Street Car based.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                        An exhibition class would be pretty cool!

                        Might draw out some interesting cars and add to the excitement. Might also help draw in spectators.

                        I am glad to see OTA thinking outside the box this year. I hope to attend an event or two! If Grant doesn't mind sharing again that is..
                        Corey Whiteman

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                          Originally posted by DavidSim View Post
                          >>GT42RR doesn't like the proposed rules for RTC and some of you do. Certainly would like to hear from more of you<<

                          I am new to OTA, I have never competed, I would like to compete though but have struggled to both understand the rules and determine if/where my car(s) would fit.

                          The new RTC classes are a positive step in my humble/uneducated opinion towards hopefully making things simpler and attracting more participants (although I don't yet understand why RTC Open is not truly "Unlimited" by not allowing full blown, tube chassis, race cars).

                          >>Open House is just a week away<<

                          I'm planning to drop by, looking forward to it.
                          Its not that I dislike the rules, its just a matter of OTA needing more competitors. The standard time attack reg set from UK AUS USA JAP and other countries would only elevate entry at OTA. Some people frown on these rules because they are associated with CSCS. Some people from CASC are not fans of CSCS so they try and stray away from that model as much as possible. The thing is those rules allow people to run in multiple series without making changes to their cars. Last year CSCS had a competition from PA come run, Mike from Innovative Tuning out of NY is the AWD lap record holder. Being diverse allows more people to compete and in the end makes the OTA budget work.
                          Adding these classes does not cost the series any extra budget but has the possibility of bringing more new people to OTA.
                          Also this is not a OTA vs. CSCS thing, I have run at CSCS in the past and I still plan to go there, but our summers are limited and if I could be at the track every weekend I would.
                          Dov Aronoff
                          OTA Social Media Rep
                          SPDA Ontario Time Attack Rep

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                            Originally posted by 3wheeler View Post
                            An exhibition class would be pretty cool!

                            Might draw out some interesting cars and add to the excitement. Might also help draw in spectators.

                            I am glad to see OTA thinking outside the box this year. I hope to attend an event or two! If Grant doesn't mind sharing again that is..
                            As long as instruction and car setup is free, the car is yours anytime! I just can't have you showing me up too much...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                              Good direction for series. Simple entry, classing, I'll be coming out to some events.

                              So, I can run a "Rival" or "Rival S" and my classing won't be affected since they're both 200TW, right?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

                                Rival and Rival S are street tires with UTQG of 200 so don't bump you a class in RTC or in regular OTA.

                                JohnP

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