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New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

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  • WrenchTime
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Dave, agreed. I don't mind the PIP system (how I plan to race). It gives a set of rules I can work to. I won't have a lot of mods, so I won't need a dyno plot... yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • madspeed
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    fwiw from a newb .... I tried to get into OTA last year as I already have the C license from Ice racing, did all the PIP stuff, car classification etc. Then I got the email about submitting the dyno plot and lost interest at that point as it was more effort than I was willing to put in... probably how most newb's are going to feel. I appreciate having the new rules and hope to attend a few under the new rules.

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  • Dave Barker
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by WrenchTime View Post
    I'm not totally clear on why hp/lbs is used initially and then forgotten about after engine/boost/tire options are considered (since it would no longer be in any way related to the car).

    Shouldn't it just be show up with a dyno plot, weigh the car at the track and get classed? If you have no mods, then take the factory hp number. If you have some mods, it might not matter since the class is 5 lbs increments. If you have a ton of mods, having a dyno plot is pretty reasonable.

    I understand the concept between creating these classes, but as some will start to "build-to-win" in these classes it seems easily exploitable doesn't it?
    Sounds like you are a fan of the general OTA classification system.It is not only acceptable but required to use dyno plots in the general OTA classes for cars with lots of engine mods as well as use car weights for cars with lots of lightening. OTOH RTC rules are designed for those folks who don't want to bother with PIP schedules, dynos, car weights etc and the RTC rules are designed to be about as simple as they can be.

    RTC classes will not be scored by PAX rules and as such run in parallel to OTA classes, not against them.

    Leave a comment:


  • WrenchTime
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Hello all, I've taken some time to scan and wanted to put in my 2 cents (since it doesn't appear anyone else has similar comments).

    I'm not totally clear on why hp/lbs is used initially and then forgotten about after engine/boost/tire options are considered (since it would no longer be in any way related to the car).

    Shouldn't it just be show up with a dyno plot, weigh the car at the track and get classed? If you have no mods, then take the factory hp number. If you have some mods, it might not matter since the class is 5 lbs increments. If you have a ton of mods, having a dyno plot is pretty reasonable. This would properly class competitors for perhaps the only reasonable and quantifiable metric. This appeals to me. If I know 15 lbs/hp is my limit, I can design to that. Once the powertrain is sorted, I can go about optimizing the rest of the car.

    I understand the concept between creating these classes, but as some will start to "build-to-win" in these classes it seems easily exploitable doesn't it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Time Attack Director
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Thank you everyone for your contribution to this discussion.

    Due to the limited amount of time to publish the rules, we had to make a decision. I thank the three member clubs of OTA for putting lots of effort in coming up with the Rules.

    I understand that this might not suit everyone's needs BUT we still encourage you to get involved with the series.

    As in all introductory products and ventures, improvement and adjustments will be needed. If you participate you can be part of this process,so please help us grow this event.

    Sign up to RTC by going to http://casc.motorsportreg.com

    Copies of the rules can be found here:

    http://www.casc.on.ca/time-attack/ra...lenge-bulletin
    Last edited by Time Attack Director; 04-01-2016, 09:48 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • John P
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Rival and Rival S are street tires with UTQG of 200 so don't bump you a class in RTC or in regular OTA.

    JohnP

    Leave a comment:


  • endura
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Good direction for series. Simple entry, classing, I'll be coming out to some events.

    So, I can run a "Rival" or "Rival S" and my classing won't be affected since they're both 200TW, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Grant Galloway
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by 3wheeler View Post
    An exhibition class would be pretty cool!

    Might draw out some interesting cars and add to the excitement. Might also help draw in spectators.

    I am glad to see OTA thinking outside the box this year. I hope to attend an event or two! If Grant doesn't mind sharing again that is..
    As long as instruction and car setup is free, the car is yours anytime! I just can't have you showing me up too much...

    Leave a comment:


  • GT42RR
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by DavidSim View Post
    >>GT42RR doesn't like the proposed rules for RTC and some of you do. Certainly would like to hear from more of you<<

    I am new to OTA, I have never competed, I would like to compete though but have struggled to both understand the rules and determine if/where my car(s) would fit.

    The new RTC classes are a positive step in my humble/uneducated opinion towards hopefully making things simpler and attracting more participants (although I don't yet understand why RTC Open is not truly "Unlimited" by not allowing full blown, tube chassis, race cars).

    >>Open House is just a week away<<

    I'm planning to drop by, looking forward to it.
    Its not that I dislike the rules, its just a matter of OTA needing more competitors. The standard time attack reg set from UK AUS USA JAP and other countries would only elevate entry at OTA. Some people frown on these rules because they are associated with CSCS. Some people from CASC are not fans of CSCS so they try and stray away from that model as much as possible. The thing is those rules allow people to run in multiple series without making changes to their cars. Last year CSCS had a competition from PA come run, Mike from Innovative Tuning out of NY is the AWD lap record holder. Being diverse allows more people to compete and in the end makes the OTA budget work.
    Adding these classes does not cost the series any extra budget but has the possibility of bringing more new people to OTA.
    Also this is not a OTA vs. CSCS thing, I have run at CSCS in the past and I still plan to go there, but our summers are limited and if I could be at the track every weekend I would.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3wheeler
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    An exhibition class would be pretty cool!

    Might draw out some interesting cars and add to the excitement. Might also help draw in spectators.

    I am glad to see OTA thinking outside the box this year. I hope to attend an event or two! If Grant doesn't mind sharing again that is..

    Leave a comment:


  • 1qwkmini
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    That's what the OPEN MOD class is for...have at it with a full race car...He!! bring out a Radical ( ok maybe not ).

    I think RTC is meant to be Street Car based.

    Leave a comment:


  • DavidSim
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    >>GT42RR doesn't like the proposed rules for RTC and some of you do. Certainly would like to hear from more of you<<

    I am new to OTA, I have never competed, I would like to compete though but have struggled to both understand the rules and determine if/where my car(s) would fit.

    The new RTC classes are a positive step in my humble/uneducated opinion towards hopefully making things simpler and attracting more participants (although I don't yet understand why RTC Open is not truly "Unlimited" by not allowing full blown, tube chassis, race cars).

    >>Open House is just a week away<<

    I'm planning to drop by, looking forward to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • xyz999
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by wparsons View Post
    If the power to weight ratio puts it there, yes. No different than a 100% stock car that has a very high power to weight ratio.
    OK I figured as much. Thanks for the note Will.

    Leave a comment:


  • wparsons
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by xyz999 View Post
    Hey Dave, just a quick question, so does it mean my LS3 Miata automatically goes into the Unlimited category based on its power to weight ratio, despite having very good street manner? i.e. it still uses street rubber, non-optimized wheel and tire width, non-optimized damper / springs, etc.
    If the power to weight ratio puts it there, yes. No different than a 100% stock car that has a very high power to weight ratio.

    Leave a comment:


  • xyz999
    replied
    Re: New Raw Time Challenge Classes added to Time-Attack series

    Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
    Folks, remember that the RTC rules as suggested allow engine swaps with no restrictions BUT you have to use the hp from the stock new engine to figure out your wgt/hp.

    Means an LS1 motor in a Miata is not going to run in the same class as a Mazda motor in a Miata.

    Factory Miatas generally work out to RTC 3 with wgt/hp of 15/1 or higher

    Put a crappy LS1 motor in the car at stock 300 hp in a 2400 lb car and you are down to wgt/hp of 8/1 or RTC1 class before you improve the motor. Do some work and that LS1 can make a lot more power. OTOH lots of cars in RTC1 have higher wgt/hp than 8 to start with.
    Hey Dave, just a quick question, so does it mean my LS3 Miata automatically goes into the Unlimited category based on its power to weight ratio, despite having very good street manner? i.e. it still uses street rubber, non-optimized wheel and tire width, non-optimized damper / springs, etc.

    Leave a comment:

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