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2019 Live timing - what's working, what isn't - feedback wanted!

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  • LemonJus
    replied
    The weather thing is something I wouldn't mind and if pulled from a reputable source via an API would make it reliable. The only tricky one is GP since it can have 3 different weather effects all over the track!

    We've been arguing internally about making the PIP schedules open for all to see but privacy concerns wound up trumping a lot the pros to make it viewable to all. We are trying to work out something though.

    Kevin

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  • wparsons
    replied
    Originally posted by Ujjwal View Post
    Will never stop dreaming!

    How about integration of track conditions / weather during the laps? Maybe pulled automatically by a crawler and into a database?
    That's actually pretty doable, I'll run it past Kevin.

    Originally posted by jimmo-san View Post
    Will, if you re-write the CCDB then tire brands could be made more consistent by using a pull-down menu. (Agreed, it might be a PITA to populate the "tire brand" list, but I'm sure just a few brands would capture 90% of what competitors use.)

    Also, it would be good to be able to show to our sponsors (Toyo) that we're using Toyo tires. Maybe not so good if not everyone (or few) are using Toyo tires.
    Yep, that's part of the idea. Keeping a list of tire manufacturers and models isn't that bad.

    Originally posted by jimmo-san View Post
    The idea of showing the PIP details is a great idea. I would have no concerns about "privacy issues" in disclosing the PIP details on my car. It might even make the competition more competitive if everyone could view last year's PIP schedules and plan their mods over the winter for the next season.
    Other people might not be so open to the details of their car being out there, especially since it could make them the target of thieves if anyone can view the full mod list. I think at most anyone could only view the PIP Schedules for other competitors at an event they were also registered (and confirmed/paid) at.

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  • jimmo-san
    replied
    Originally posted by wparsons View Post

    Tire brand: we don't have the data for that, most people don't enter consistent data in the notes on the ccdb (ie someone might enter RE-71R, another RE71R, another Bridgestone RE71R, etc). From a timing perspective it would be garbage in, garbage out, and not so useful See below re CCDB re-write.
    Will, if you re-write the CCDB then tire brands could be made more consistent by using a pull-down menu. (Agreed, it might be a PITA to populate the "tire brand" list, but I'm sure just a few brands would capture 90% of what competitors use.)

    Also, it would be good to be able to show to our sponsors (Toyo) that we're using Toyo tires. Maybe not so good if not everyone (or few) are using Toyo tires.

    Originally posted by wparsons View Post
    PIP details: with the current split systems (CCDB is completely disjointed), that would be very difficult. I'm working on the plans to re-write the CCDB (and also possibly registration as well), with a more integrated bigger system the pip details (and driver car picture) become MUCH easier. Right now all data has to be imported into the timing system via CSV files, once there's good integration it'll be much wider open. We could also make tire selection much more explicit to help with the contingency idea above. With better integration we could possibly even open up access to view the full pip schedule for anyone logged in and is also a competitor at the event (it *could* be public, but I think there's privacy concerns there?)
    The idea of showing the PIP details is a great idea. I would have no concerns about "privacy issues" in disclosing the PIP details on my car. It might even make the competition more competitive if everyone could view last year's PIP schedules and plan their mods over the winter for the next season.


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  • Ujjwal
    replied
    Will never stop dreaming!

    How about integration of track conditions / weather during the laps? Maybe pulled automatically by a crawler and into a database?

    Leave a comment:


  • wparsons
    replied
    Originally posted by Ujjwal View Post
    Can you integrate columns for tire brand (for contingency) and size, power to weight, and how many pips in each of engine / gearing, susp, body, aero? How about comparison to track record column? How about a picture of the car when you click on someone's laps?

    In the future, is it possible to set up split times throughout the track, or a radar to log top speed on the main straights?

    Just day dreaming.
    Tire brand: we don't have the data for that, most people don't enter consistent data in the notes on the ccdb (ie someone might enter RE-71R, another RE71R, another Bridgestone RE71R, etc). From a timing perspective it would be garbage in, garbage out, and not so useful See below re CCDB re-write.

    Track records: not stored anywhere currently, and there wasn't an import of previous years data from the old timing system. I think it's just tracked in excel or even paper right now There has been talk about this, figuring out how to automatically manage it is the difficulty. It gets really messy because someone can run a record lap, but then gets flagged as 2WO, and the record needs to be reverted. Once all the data is in the new system it gets a bit easier, but it's still a bit of a messy workflow.

    PIP details: with the current split systems (CCDB is completely disjointed), that would be very difficult. I'm working on the plans to re-write the CCDB (and also possibly registration as well), with a more integrated bigger system the pip details (and driver car picture) become MUCH easier. Right now all data has to be imported into the timing system via CSV files, once there's good integration it'll be much wider open. We could also make tire selection much more explicit to help with the contingency idea above. With better integration we could possibly even open up access to view the full pip schedule for anyone logged in and is also a competitor at the event (it *could* be public, but I think there's privacy concerns there?)

    Splits: Kevin covered it, doable but expensive. Also, not sure any track but GP has multiple loops buried. SMP and CMP might, TMP and DDT definitely don't.

    Integrating radar would be next to impossible without making it VERY manual. We do know track length and lap time, so calculating and displaying average lap speed is pretty trivial. I've actually bounced the idea around before, just never jumped on it.

    Don't take any of this as a reason to stop dreaming, I'm still very early in the planning for the next big pieces to work on and wild ideas could help shape things still.

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  • LemonJus
    replied
    Originally posted by Ujjwal View Post
    Can you integrate columns for tire brand (for contingency) and size, power to weight, and how many pips in each of engine / gearing, susp, body, aero? How about comparison to track record column? How about a picture of the car when you click on someone's laps?

    In the future, is it possible to set up split times throughout the track, or a radar to log top speed on the main straights?

    Just day dreaming.
    As much as the data nerd in me wants to post this information (and rules also require competitors to have copies of their PIP schedule for all other competitors to view), there are several issues with this request:

    1- Most people will be viewing on dinky cell phone (assume 5" screen). You're asking for a LOT of details crammed into the screen or a LOT of pages.
    2- PIP schedules should only be for fellow competitors to view and not the general public according to past precedence. So now we add a layer of security issues and such. Definitely do-able but annoying to maintain.
    3- Split times would require additional loop detectors which is $$$$. As much as I'd love to have this, it is out of OTA's budget and doesn't really do any value-add for the organization in general.
    4- The tire data would be interesting but it requires competitors to fill in accurately which I suppose is what the CCDB is supposed to do. Could add a small icon to designate Tire Brand maybe? Like Yo for Yokohama, Mi for Michelin, To for Toyo, Br for Bridgestone, etc.?
    5- Track record is something we want to integrate for the future but is a wee bit tricky given there is the ability to protest and such. This is something we were investigating already albeit not at the top of the pile of work we were planning for the winter.

    Keep it coming!

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  • Ujjwal
    replied
    Can you integrate columns for tire brand (for contingency) and size, power to weight, and how many pips in each of engine / gearing, susp, body, aero? How about comparison to track record column? How about a picture of the car when you click on someone's laps?

    In the future, is it possible to set up split times throughout the track, or a radar to log top speed on the main straights?

    Just day dreaming.

    Leave a comment:


  • LemonJus
    replied
    Since no one has posted anything yet, I'll kick start it.

    I think we should make the default screen the overall best laps page the default landing screen (which is best viewed in landscape mode on a cell). We currently show both practice AND competition laps and I think we should only show practice IF practice is the current session. Once competition is active, practice columns go away and get replaced with competition and you now add "Class" and "Overall" target columns and the default view is listed by best PAX score currently.

    The "view overall best laps" should be changed to read "View Current Class Standings" for people who want to see who's winning their class.

    It'd also be nice to see if we can make page autorefresh.

    And last, be nice to flash a little tag "ON TRK" to indicate who's driving currently. Good for people spectating remotely.

    Kevin Wong
    OTA Chief Timer

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  • wparsons
    replied
    Bumping this back up now that the season is over. Always open to feedback (good and bad!!).

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  • wparsons
    replied
    Originally posted by dubya_rx View Post

    Can you sort via multiple columns via mobile? Maybe have sorted by best PAX and class by default?
    Confirmed there's no way to multi-sort on mobile unless you have an add on keyboard that adds the shift/alt/ctrl keys. I could add a couple links above the table to set preset sorting options, plus the usual clicking of column headers. I'm going to see if there's a way to make the primary results page more concise first, but keep the suggestions coming!

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  • wparsons
    replied
    Originally posted by dubya_rx View Post
    Thanks Will,
    I found it as a more compact page to view results as opposed to the results page. Useful on mobile (I suspect everyone will be on mobile at the track).
    There's an argument (that I'm in favor of) to condense the results page to make it more compact too. I'm trying to steal some time from a friend that's a really good UX designer to help make it a lot more concise and useful on mobile.

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  • dubya_rx
    replied
    Thanks Will,
    I found it as a more compact page to view results as opposed to the results page. Useful on mobile (I suspect everyone will be on mobile at the track).

    Leave a comment:


  • wparsons
    replied
    Originally posted by dubya_rx View Post

    Can you sort via multiple columns via mobile? Maybe have sorted by best PAX and class by default?
    Not sure how to do multi sort on mobile, I'll look into it.

    Sorting by best pax and class just duplicates the results page though, and defeats the purpose of this page (to see how you're doing against all classes).

    Leave a comment:


  • dubya_rx
    replied
    Originally posted by wparsons View Post
    New page is done and live!

    If you hold shift while clicking on the column headers you can sort by multiple columns.
    Can you sort via multiple columns via mobile? Maybe have sorted by best PAX and class by default?

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  • LemonJus
    replied
    Originally posted by wparsons View Post

    Not yet, there wasn't any import of previous season data into the new system so there's only 2019 data so far. Once there's more data it could definitely be done though.

    I haven't worked with the old system at all, but if there's a big wish for getting historical data imported into the new system it's something that could be considered. Not sure if the old system keeps year over year data or was wiped clean at the start of every season though.
    The old system does keep data from previous years but pulling back beyond say 2017 might prove tricky. I may have to ask around from previous timers into how we can pull data out that can be used for the new system.

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