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  • Question re corner weighting

    Anyone out there have their car corner weighted? If so do you set it at 50% left to right?

    Seems the round y round guys load up the L side of the car and in some cases there are specific rules that limit how much weight they can put on the left side.

    My thought is, all the tracks I will be running in 2016 are clockwise and my question is, would it be worthwhile to throw more weight on the right side? If so, how much?
    Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

  • #2
    Re: Question re corner weighting

    Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
    Anyone out there have their car corner weighted? If so do you set it at 50% left to right?

    Seems the round y round guys load up the L side of the car and in some cases there are specific rules that limit how much weight they can put on the left side.

    My thought is, all the tracks I will be running in 2016 are clockwise and my question is, would it be worthwhile to throw more weight on the right side? If so, how much?
    Don't forget, on a road course, a "clockwise" track just means that the right turns add up to 360 degrees more than the lefts. At Mosport this could be significant since the total "turn degrees" is quite small. At Shannonville, Calabogie or even TMP the left/right difference would be smaller.

    I suspect that, due to the non-linearity of the tire load/grip curve, you will lose more grip on the left-handers than you will gain on the right-handers, although this is offset by the greater number of rights. And the car will feel a bit asymmetrical.

    I've never heard of people intentionally setting up road course cars that way, but I would defer to those with greater expertise. My $0.02.
    Another quality post from Black Dwarf Racing

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    • #3
      Re: Question re corner weighting

      Originally posted by Dave Barker View Post
      Anyone out there have their car corner weighted? If so do you set it at 50% left to right?

      Seems the round y round guys load up the L side of the car and in some cases there are specific rules that limit how much weight they can put on the left side.

      My thought is, all the tracks I will be running in 2016 are clockwise and my question is, would it be worthwhile to throw more weight on the right side? If so, how much?
      Corner balancing is generally done with minor adjustment of adjustable suspension perch height to balance LF/RR and RF/LR to 50/50. Strategic relocation of batteries, fire extinguishers, etc. can sure help.

      I know the Chair of the CCC isn't considering adding plain ballast to his car.

      I agree with Kevin... adding weight may be the wrong way to go about it unless you have a drastic handling problem to resolve.
      sigpic

      Stephen, SPDA VP, OTA Director, CCC Member
      OTA: SGT1 ! -=- CSCS: SSA #842

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      • #4
        Re: Question re corner weighting

        Interesting though that in ice racing there seems to be an advantage to having a passenger on Sundays (run Clockwise) but some if not all of that is likely for traction as much as handling.

        OTOH, the round y round guys certainly seem to load up the inside.
        Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

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        • #5
          Re: Question re corner weighting

          Hondas have an advantage on Saturday with the engine on the drivers side vs sundays track direction.My 1st ice race title was in awd rubber with an '87 Honda civc wagon,on Saturdays that car was nearly untouchable(best race start ever was a 19th starting spot to lead every single lap)and on sunday I had to drive my butt off to stay ahead of the subarus.

          I think it was the 3rd weekend I adjusted the torsion bars all whacky to unload the drivers front and load the passenger front for sunday races.Made a noticeable difference and gave me a little breathing rm.Adjusted it back for Saturdays.

          My cars use coilovers front and rear but I don't monkey with the corner weights,car does respond well to staggered camber settings though.Giving up a little speed in the kink is more than offset with the time spent turning at either end of the track.

          I don't run ballast on awd cars btw,allready heavy enough and I would move items that can be moved rearward but not too far.

          SS Class and overall winning fwd civic I used approx. 25lbs at each headlight and another 25 that was movable,placed it over the inside front corner for each days direction.Running additional weight or leaving it on the wrong front corner hurt midcorner grip,running less ballast hurt the start line and corner exit grip.

          I believe if a passenger helps in either direction you still have much work to do with car set-up,my cars suck with a passenger so no more passenger seats in my stuff.

          If you think you've gotten the car gutted and lightened enough have another look as for sure there's something else than can be removed or replaced with a lighter pc.Pay special attention to weight beyond or at the wheelbase at either end.

          My turdcel was able to lose very close to another 100lbs for this yr,thats a total of well over 300lbs(not a guess,I weighed every item removed replaced) from a 1950lb base model econobox.I'm able to only use approx. 40lbs ballast,25lbs of that moves from front corner to front corner sat/sun.

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          • #6
            Re: Question re corner weighting

            Wow! Your Ice Racer is way more prepped than my Time-Attack car!

            For us, in front wheel drive rubber to ice, the car is effectively comparable to a 1000 hp tarmac car, i.e. traction is the main limiting factor whereas in Time-Attack, (unlike autocross), acceleration traction is only a limitation in a few corners. The issue is that the extra traction of a passenger on our Ice Racer may be more helpful than the loss of cornering power due to the extra weight.
            It may be that looking at Ice Racing to get ideas for Time-Attack may not really be useful.

            Completely off topic, what sort of camber settings would you use on your ice racer? I would have thought the really low air pressures we run would have effectively provided some dynamic camber. For interest sake, the max lateral G's we can get in rubber to ice was 0.35 and rarely over 0.3 so I don't really have a good idea of how much the car(s) lean at that low lateral force. (We don't have front sway bars)
            Mobil 1 Time-Attack # 4, CCC Member

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            • #7
              Re: Question re corner weighting

              I think the principles I use for setup of the ice car translate well to tarmac,the alignment settings and roll stiffness obviously differ but the approach is the same.

              Right or wrong my thought process regarding fwd setup is to get as much front grip as possible and while most just keep dumping weight to the nose to try and accomplish that I work a different stategy.

              I work hard to not transfer too much weight onto the outside front and off of the inside front,part of that is with(attemped) smooth driving but most comes from a wider front track(spacers and wheel offsets can be used),no front sway bar,additional castor so as the spindle travels the outside front tire moves up and the inside front moves down for dynamic weight jacking.

              Keeping both front wheels relatively evenly loaded for combined turning and putting power down makes sense to me.

              At the rear stiffer springs provide most of the roll control.

              For camber,I've spent lots of time following others and paying attention to the tires relation to the ice mid corner while looking down the sides of the car.You'll notice the inside front running on its inner edge and the outer front at approx. 0 camber or most likely positive camber.Take a pencil and drag across a table with the pointy end leading the eraser than try the same with the tip behind the eraser and pushing the eraser...much more resistance.

              I "think" the studs like to be pushed into the ice instead of dragged across it so in the past before I started using castor for dynamic camber changes I'd run -1 degree camber outside front and 0 inside front.

              Set your toe with those settings and while the steering wheel will be cocked when you flip it for the next days direction the toe will be close enough,I've always run some toe out.For sure toe in sucks....better check it after getting thumped as I've discovered the hard way over the yrs.

              I know your in rubber but the ideas translate well I think,we aren't that much faster in SS depending on how the ice is for you guys.We are much much more consistant though from lap to lap,race to race.

              For sure without question in my mind the lightest car will be the best platform period.

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