Street Stud Class for 2005

[Champ98]

As organizers have proved this past season, we can accomodate another race added into the schedule and still get finished at a decent time of day.

With the proposed new stud rule change it would appear that the street studs would not be competitive running in the same race and may pose some safety concerns for the faster cars.

The street stud class would be a great entry level "stepping stone" for those that want to go a little faster and have more control. Traction would be equivelent to racing after studs. The tires themselves would be far cheaper than a set of Menards with no build time like the current 'Screw' tires.

I would like to put forward a motion at the next meeting to allow this new class to exist and to be run in a separate race, of course there would actually be three new classes in that race as FWD, RWD, and 4WD could be running on the same tires. Perhaps SS1, SS2 and SS3.

As Tom eluded to in the last meeting this race could be spread somewhere in the schedule to afford other classes more traction more often.

Reserch has already been done as to the availability of these tires and they have proved very afforable at around $100 per tire compared to almost $500 for the imported Manards after shipping.

What, if any, interest for this proposal would there be out there??

[RedRabbit Racer]

Andy - I never make the meetings but $500 for ONE menard! If that's right you won't see me in studs anymore I thought they were $200 each.

I agree that there will be a huge difference in speed between a regular stud tire and a street stud tire and we need to have a separate race for street studs.

ps thanks for all your work and the Minden Kinsmen and Tom Prentice and sons for the track this season. It was great!

[Leanne]

I'm not a stud racer but I've attended the meetings and thought I should step in the clarify before the rumour mill got into full spin.

I believe the Menards are $135 US plus shipping. Though a better deal on tires and shipping could be had if ordered in quantity we're told. Not sure where the $500 figure came from but it's incorrect.

As for street studs, Gianni noted at the meeting that finding information on availability and types has been difficult. I've also done some preliminary research and come up empty handed.

While I think it's a great idea to have a street studs class as a "stepping stone" to full blown studs, at this point, we have no idea if there will be any interested participants or suitable and available tires.

As seems to be the case in many of the stud related discussion, I think more information is required before any final decisions can be made.

[Do It Sidewayz]

My uncle was trying to push a street stud class. We really think it is a good class for our series.

I for one would be in, i'd run it forsure.

We talked with Jeff Wenzel about it at the track, and he said he can get a stud gun, and has access to all the tires, and would be willing to get the gun, and stud the tires for competitors, at a flat rate type of thing.

I personally think the good thing with Street studs would be cost.


Right now...to be competitive in rubber, you need new tires, and often. You will also need 2 or 3 different tires.....This weekend was a prime example....Walmart tires were fast.....we contemplated driving to Orillia on Saturday night to buy a set...but spending 200 for a set of tires for ONE DAY?!?! i don't think so.

With the street stud class...buy 6 or so tires at the begining of the season....and replace the studs that pull out of the tire when they do....probably cheaper.

Ofcourse..there might be one tire that works better than the others...but that is ok....how about....SPEC Street Stud Class???? Find a street stud tire, that is available in a common 13, 14, 15 inch size.

I've seen the guys racing in Quebec and it looked like an absolute blast! Not blazingly fast...but enough grip to be in control, and have fun.

Sign me up FORSURE!!

[Leanne]

And by all means, I'm not against the idea, it just seems like there's alot of confusion about the details.

My understanding of street stud is a tire bought already studded from a major manufacturer designed for use on public roads. If you're building them yourself than we're right back to the same problems going to a street stud was supposed to avoid. Reliability and the time associated with building them and fixing them if they are not reliable.

As I mentioned, I think a street stud class is a great idea but at this stage, aside from yourself, we don't know who else would be interested. They can't really designate a class and put it in the schedule for next year when no one knows how many competitors it will attract. I think discussion on the forum is a great way to ascertain who is in fact interested though.

Then the issue of track wear comes up again. Although the street stud tires have a much, much smaller protrusion, it's still more cars with studded tires doing more damage to the track.

Also, I think that the idea that a rubber-to-ice competitor HAS to have new tires to be competitive is a misconception. Several of the first place guys are running on 14 year old tires! I think in most cases, a good set of ice radials with a spare (5) and a pair of slush tires like the Wally's are all a participant needs. There are so many variables when it comes to ice racing, maybe just some additional weight in the right place may improve a car's performance or fresh tractionizing. Then, there's always the driver's ability too. Just way too many variables to blame performance solely on tires.

I think no matter how you look at it though, a studded tire, whether Menard, street or home made, is going to cost more than rubber-to-ice tires.

[rubber2ice]

I'm interested in a street stud class as I percieve it.

Take a trip to Montreal. Buy the same tires those crazy Quebec drivers are driving on black ice with at 150 kmh, stick 'em on your iceracer and presto!

As Leanne so rightly pointed out, studding any and all makes of tires is for the most part back at the crux of the problem now as far as tire builds are concerned.

There is a club in New York, I believe it to be AMEC, I'm pretty certain they race on street stud street tires, not street studs in whatever tire.

And if I recall, they take those tires and run them a 100 miles
in the summer, on the hwy. and cure the rubber. They claim virtually no loss of the studs and they run all type of heavyweight vehicle.

I for one would be interested in something like that if it were available.

Later, TD

[RSR Racing]

just reading over the posts and i'm curious who of these "first place people" are running on 14 year old tires????? not trying to be rude...just curious

[Do It Sidewayz]

Street Studded Tires are usually studded by the tire dealer.

You can go to a tire store and buy a tire which is "pinned" for studs.. The tire dealer usally just inserts the studs into the tire.

and on the new tire thing...i don't think there is ANY question that new tires ARE faster...if someone was to come up and put on 4 new tires every weekend, seeing that it was even a decent car, they would simply walk away from everybody.

I'm really not too sure how many people are running on 14 year old tires...None that i can think of. There is no way a 14 year old POS Sears Roadhandler will be remotely close to competitive.

I would not doubt, that my tire budget for rubber this year, was equal too or if not MORE, than what my uncle paid for an entire year of studded tires.

A street studded class would be cheaper than running rubber, i believe....and would "level" out the playing field. Especially with a SPEC street stud tire.

BTW...Finding Street Studdable Tires is NOT hard....look right beside us. Quebec has street studs, Northern Ontario has street studs, many Northern US states have street studs.

You just need someone to purchase a stud gun, and a pile of studs....I think the studs are something like a $0.01 a piece

[Crusher45]

Actually the Blizzaks on the back of MDR's Golfs are 8 years old and both Greg and I won yesterday even with Lake Minden in the straight.

Also on the issue of pricing of Menards it was mentioned at the drivers meeting which Leanne so graciously pointed out that they were $186.00 Cdn installed per tire. I think the $500 is for a set of four tires Canadian not installed. I may be wrong.

As for street stud classes running seperately, sure, when then have a field of 18+ drivers in their three classes as Chris pointed out, SS1, SS3, & SS4. Sounds good to me but we need the numbers.

[rubber2ice]

14 years may be a little old for iceracing, however, that may be an issue for a tire rule of some sort?

Tom Prentice has tires on his mustang that must be at least 4 to 5 years old. He won a race or 2 if I recall.

Some of the money being spent on tires, for ice racing, is just a little nutty in my estimation!

I saw brand new tires on some cars this weekend.
That forces me to spend more money on tires to compete!

one set a year max...that's it!

TD

[max attack]

I'm with Chris-bring on a street tire class!!!!,with the stud tire changes for next year the track should hold up better and be able to afford the minamal wear from street pins.As a side bonus the rubber cars get the track a little roughed up between "stud races" which might just help a bit with some of the crashing and bashing(from mistakes,not moron drivers).
It would be nice if there was a spec tire-except I would prefer the option to use a tire I can affold if one exists.If one of the other racers wants to set up shop to provide tires I'd love to get an idea of the costs ready to run.
This street tire class would be great IMO,just one question with regards to safety-would a roll bar be considered mandatory?.

Depending on what happens this summer with my 2 other race cars I would be very interested in running a street stud class.

[Gary]

Crusher, you be da man. Director man, methinks. If so, then you may wish to consider the implications of a street stud class. Some food for thought.....

If street studs will be like running good tractionized tires just after the stud class, then I'm guessing it won't get too fast, and grip may be a bit more consistent than tractionized tires, which are better when new and freshly tractionized. Maybe cheaper too, since new tires and/or retractionizing every week or so may be less of an advantage.

So, to summarize: maybe a bit faster, maybe more consistent, and maybe fewer tires to buy and tractionize......sounds good to me. Let's talk some more.....

What's not to like about the concept? Maybe track wear, maybe cannibalizing some thinly populated classes, maybe roll bar requirements. Then again, maybe these aren't issues.

You say 18 cars will make the class. OK, that works. My guess is if a rules package is proposed, and you call for a commitment from the racers, you'll get a good idea if there will be 18 or not. I'm guessing you might get swamped with entries if the rules are clear.

Some open items you may want to think about/ask for input on include:

Minimum commitment of entries..by when? (fall meeting?)
Roll bar/cage, or not?
Open tire rule, with limits on number and height of studs?
Or spec tire with similar limits?

If spec tire, then pricing might get even better as far as cost containment, and issues of availability and sizing could be addressed, so you can run what ya brung and know you have a shot at getting competitive tires for it. Maybe a sponsor could be found.....the possibilites get interesting.

An intriguing concept, this. What say you?

[RedRabbit Racer]

Better get someone lined up now to re-stud the street stud tires. it will be a full time job on the weekends! hopefully some one who will do it for the $0.01 per stud cost!

[Champ98]

I stand corrected: ....

In my original post I did mean the $500 figure to be a ball park for a set of Menards and not a unit price for 1.

As leanne pointed out at the last meeting $186 per corner is over $500 at $744 .... Without spares.

[Champ98]

Max

If you read the rules regarding metal to ice classes a roll bar WOULD be manditory, ... But, there are plenty of rubber to ice cars in the paddock that have them anyway.