Steel Wheels and brake cooling

[shanehutton]

So, I am trying to decide what wheels to mount my R-compounds on. I have factory rims with a very open 5 spoke design and steel wheels. I would prefer to use the steel wheels for the Rs and keep the factory wheels for winter because I have to look at them far more often.

That being said, I wonder how bad the steels will be for brake cooling. I know it will be fine for autocross but I had homed to do the odd lapping day and I know my brakes are going to get mighty hot either way.

Also, on the subject of brake cooling, do most of you take the shields off the inside of your front brakes?

[shanehutton]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

66 views and nobody can tell me if steel wheels are a bad idea?
Wow.

[Cap'n Pete]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Well, roundy-round cars typically run steel wheels, and you'll see them going around the track with glowing red rotors . I don't think it'll cause you any problems. Besides, you could always run some cooling ducts if you thought you were having heat issues .

[Snizzoop]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Sorry...I'm a reader...not a poster.

I have no idea if steel wheels would hinder cooling.

As for removing the dust sheilds...I'm looking forward to some responses on that as well. I'm about to tear mine off and add some cooling ducts.

[Pete@Marcor]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Assuming all of your mods follow the rules:

Removing brake shields are not a bad idea, but probably not needed at an autocross. What pads do you have on the car?

Lapping days with a closed up steel wheel will not be condusive to fun. You will run out of brakes from the heat, and wear out your pads faster from the extra heat.

Are both sets of wheels the same for width and offset? Are they both hub-centric?

Steel wheels are HEAVY. I would not be shocked if they were twice as heavy as the alloy OE wheels you have. Also, they flex a lot more than an alloy wheel.

How much is another set of used OE wheels?

Why not flip your tires every season? Use your alloys for your winters and your R-compounds?

[shanehutton]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Pads are PBR Metal master

I will make sure to change the fluid this spring.

Besides taking off the backing plates, is there anything I can do to help keep them working? Would SS lines help keep the fluid cooler? I read that somewhere but it seemed a little far fetched. I am going to try and work out brake cooling ducts but I am not sure how much room I have.

It's a Volvo S70 (3000lbs car with 11" rotors). One version of my car came with 12" rotors though so I think once my rotors need replacing I will swap everything to that setup as it uses the same calipers with a different bracket. I assume that will help a bit.


I think I have just decided that I don't really care what my wheels look like in the winter so it's going to be Steels for the winters and alloys for the track tires.

Thanks for the responses.

[Pete@Marcor]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Pads are PBR Metal master

I will make sure to change the fluid this spring.

Besides taking off the backing plates, is there anything I can do to help keep them working? Would SS lines help keep the fluid cooler? I read that somewhere but it seemed a little far fetched. I am going to try and work out brake cooling ducts but I am not sure how much room I have.

It's a Volvo S70 (3000lbs car with 11" rotors). One version of my car came with 12" rotors though so I think once my rotors need replacing I will swap everything to that setup as it uses the same calipers with a different bracket. I assume that will help a bit.


I think I have just decided that I don't really care what my wheels look like in the winter so it's going to be Steels for the winters and alloys for the track tires.

Thanks for the responses.

About the only brake lines that will make your fluid cooler would be these ones:



Again, make sure your brakes will follow the rules. Also, make sure that you can get bood pads for both applications. More rotor mass is definitely the way to go for insurance on brakes, when on track, if you need to.

Usually just the correct pad choice is all that is needed.

[shanehutton]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Oddly enough, the 11 and 12" brakes use the same pads and calipers. It is just the rotors and a different caliper bracket / carrier.
It is probably the cheapest brake upgrade out there.

Do you think the PBR Metal Masters will be decent. I didn't want to go to extreme because I need decent cold brake bite for daily driving.

[Pete@Marcor]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Oddly enough, the 11 and 12" brakes use the same pads and calipers. It is just the rotors and a different caliper bracket / carrier.
It is probably the cheapest brake upgrade out there.

Do you think the PBR Metal Masters will be decent. I didn't want to go to extreme because I need decent cold brake bite for daily driving.

Not that odd, actually. VW/Audi does the same thing.

The Metal Masters were the best pad available in the mid 1980's. Still a good pad, but the single biggest complaint was a lack of cold bite.

HP+s would be a good pad as well, but I don't think that either of those will be a good pad for the track. I don't think that they will handle the heat. When lapping HP+s are only good for 3-5 laps for me, before they start to fade.

[Pete@Marcor]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

About the only brake lines that will make your fluid cooler would be these ones:



Again, make sure your brakes will follow the rules. Also, make sure that you can get bood pads for both applications. More rotor mass is definitely the way to go for insurance on brakes, when on track, if you need to.

Usually just the correct pad choice is all that is needed.

sorry, lost in translation:

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...&products_id=1

[CDNMadeHondaGuy]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

As a former volvo guy that has lapped his V70, go for GREAT PADS, (Hawk Blues some form of race pads). You will wear the brakes out and fast. I have to agree with Pete in regards tot he steel wheels, dump them and go alloy. Try after market for wheels if you can find them at a good price. The factory alloy wheels are not treated and do have a tendancy to bend and fracture. I went with Enkei's on mine. The car is a good car, but heavy. Another thing to consider changing would be the wheel bolts to studs and lug nuts.

Just my 2 cents, don't have a Volvo anymore, so now I'm just a Honda guy.

Good Luck!

[Dave Barker]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Cross drilled brake lines!!!?? That's a new one.

Seriously, cooling ducts make a big difference. Remember that it is actually the air that removes heat from the brake and the more air the better.

Bigger rotors are indeed bigger heat sinks but they are also bigger rotating masses that have to be accelerated and slowed down. (ever wonder why race cars don't generally use 20" wheels?)

Given the amount of kinetic energy that you are converting to heat with a 3000 lb car, I don't think a 3-4 lb heavier rotor is going to make a huge difference in rotor temps as long as there is adequate (meaning large amounts) of air getting to your rotors.

My cooling ducts are pure ghetto and although they leak a fair bit of air and are only 2.5 " they make a really big difference on my 3500 lb Camaro.

[shanehutton]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

That site with the cross drilled brake lines was great. I ordered some blinker fluid and a passenger side noise suppression kit. Got them shipped overnight cause I can't wait.

I am going to try and fab up some cooling ducts. Would it be better to leave the shields on and weld an inlet into them or take them off and aim the hose at everything? I kinda like that idea because I can't weld.

On that note, I need to find someone to weld stuff in Toronto. Anyone know a guy?

[Dave Barker]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Shane, some folks make modified brackets that try to seal off ducts so that air only goes to the centre of the rotor. Usually a bit pricey but likely work well

My cheap setup doesn't do that and I can't be bothered to go custom.

You will need to remove the dust shields to get any cooling to the rotor's centre.

[Dan Fraser]

Re: Steel Wheels and brake cooling

Here's a review from the site that sells those performance inproving brake lines

Product Information | Additional Reviews
by Br LannDate Added: 12/10/2008
I put these on my car and immediately raced a Honda Civic but when I went to stop I hit a telephone wall and nearly died.

Rating: [1 of 5 Stars]

Anyone have experience with the teflon coated lines?I've heard both good and bad.I would've thought that the steel braid would be enough protection.